Gosh!! can anyone tell me exact numbers on the CupKit???

P-51 · Dec 27, 2001

Ok, that's what I'm trying to say.

Duc: I'd have to think about that. It's an interesting idea. We'd need to take measurements though.

arskiker · Dec 27, 2001

check your PM Rob

FastFocusZX3 · Dec 27, 2001

Here's what I have to say...
I've driven my car - cup-kit and front stress bar
I've driven Carizme's car (correct me if I'm wrong) Pro Kit? and stress bar
I've been in Jwardell's car - Pro Kit right?

From being in and driving these cars, my car (with the cup-kit) CLEARLY displayed the best handling...
H&R doesn't build any products for show purposes period. Their engineers work strictly for handling performance.

arskiker · Dec 27, 2001

Actually H&R engineers that design parts, for street cars, design them to what the mainstream customer wants. Hence 'lowering springs' and not 'performance springs'.

They obviously do have a performance division, but their race coilovers cost over $2000.

The reason your cup kit 'handled' better than the eibachs would be because of there matched dampers.

P-51 · Dec 28, 2001

Uh yeah, it sounds like both cars you test drove didn't have aftermarket dampers? That's not really a fair test now is it?

arskiker · Dec 28, 2001

I would venture to say that the stock springs with properly adjusted Koni Yellows would handle as good or probably better than any lowering spring and shock combination.

Ducman69 · Dec 28, 2001

Stock springs are -very- soft though... seems like they were oriented more along the lines of 'fluff' for hyper-sensitive American posteriors, than performance considerations. And while improved dampening would surely be a huge improvement (it is unfair to compare a matched damper/spring combo to a spring swap when comparing height), you would want a matched increase in spring rate too.

I'm going to do some more reading, but so far I hold the position that the best half-redesigned suspension would include stiffer springs, shorter springs (by around 1" to match the increased spring rate... although I haven't figured out how that relates to suspension extension yet heheh), stiffer sway bar, and stiffer damping. I know you can go TOO stiff for a given vehicles weight on non-smooth roads, but the factory really went soft for the mainstream consumer's sake.

The CupKit, IMHO, represents close to the best possible characteristics a 2.6-2.5" lowered car can exhibit. If you want to go low for aesthetic motivations, the CupKit would be -the- way to do that.

But if you aren't worried about looks and are simply looking for the best possible increase in performance, its not really ideal because of the rather large ride height reduction.

[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: Ducman69 ]</p>

FastFocusZX3 · Dec 28, 2001

aha... but I also drove Smile13's car which had springs and konis, and mine still felt more solid... his seemed fluffier...

arskiker · Dec 28, 2001

Naz, what are the spring rates on the Cup Kit HuH. If you dont know or can't figure out. Give me the lower and upper measurements with the width of the coil and number of coils.

I bet they aren't even 50% stiffer.

P-51 · Dec 29, 2001

Yeah Eric, I was able to calculate spring rate within 5%! of actual using the spring calculation. The only difficulty is getting an accurate spring wire diameter (I doubt Naz has a caliper), and the ACTIVE COILS (VERY IMPORTANT).

I got within 10% just by counting coils, and within 5% once I figured out how many coils were inactive.

nazthug · Dec 29, 2001

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by arskiker:
I would venture to say that the stock springs with properly adjusted Koni Yellows would handle as good or probably better than any lowering spring and shock combination.<hr></blockquote>

i agree koni's are amazing, ive had em, but no way with the stock springs, it just doesnt seem right, they are WAY WAY too soft, WAY. Your car would be leaning into turns so damn hard, your inside wheels wouldnt be doing anything for traction, and coming out of corners, your inside wheel would spin under throttle, i remember having this problem with my stock car, comig out of corners, i couldnt give it any more than half throttle without sendind the inside wheel into a spinning frenzy. I personally thing that eibach race springs, koni shocks/struts, eibach sway bars and poly bushings would the the ideal racetrack setup to me, i like the stiffness, the car is much more predictable, you can toss it around at max and know exactly whats its gonna do

MichaelXi · Dec 30, 2001

By the time you guys get this drop-vs.-performance-incl. necessary spring-rates Thing figured out, I might have enough saved up to Re-Do my Suspension.

If I understand correctly however, I would be best served to wait until I can afford Koni's and an appropriate Spring package, Shy of the cost of going to "Coil-Overs"... Correct???
Now then..... Which Springs to consider.....

arskiker · Dec 30, 2001

You can get the H&R coilovers from Jinstall in a groupbuy for $750.

Gosh!! can anyone tell me exact numbers on the CupKit???

P-51

arskiker

FastFocusZX3

arskiker

P-51

arskiker

Ducman69

FastFocusZX3

arskiker

P-51

nazthug

MichaelXi

arskiker

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