Aww, oh no =/

JaySD · Nov 21, 2002

I posted this over on the socal forum. Does anyone know insurance companies that will cover racing or who offers the additional policies to cover it and how much they cost?

Part D Damage to your A
Exclusions
Section 13

Loss to "your covered auto" or any "non-owned" auto located inside a facility designed for racing for the purpose of:
a. Competing in: or
b. Practicing or preparing for;
any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.

Wonder if I can switch insurance companies mid contract or if you get hosed. This is the place the dealer set me up with through a broker. I had planned to go with someone like Century 21.
After Garyrich's unfortunate accident I need to think seriously now about going to willow in dec unless I can get different insurance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

garyrich · Nov 21, 2002

Yowch! That's bad. That would disallow just about any driving school, since they almost always use a track. They could probably disallow a claim if something happened in *parking lot* of a track. I'd switch companies.

Actually, re reading it it doesn't make sense

Loss to "your covered auto" or any "non-owned" auto located inside a facility designed for racing for the purpose of:
a. Competing in: or
b. Practicing or preparing for;
any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.

Is it the facility that is designed a: or b: or is it that the facility is designed for racing and *you* are there for the purpose of a: or b:? If the latter, it's not so bad. Probably 20 lawyers reviewed this and it still doesn't provide clear guidance.

The one in my policy is clearer, but isn't a proper sentence

"9. During any organized or agreed-upon racing or speed contest or
> demonstration car has active participation, or in practice or
> preparation for any such contest."

I think they actually were trying to say:

"9. During any organized or agreed-upon racing or speed contest or demonstration IN WHICH car has active participation, or in practice or preparation for any such contest."

[ 11-21-2002, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: garyrich ]

SlickShoes · Nov 21, 2002

I just called about USAA (my insurance company) and they also do not cover this stuff. Not even the SCCA parking lot stuff, since its still considered a "speed contest". But they did say that the car might be covered if I was not speeding, nor participating in the speed contest, but just happened to be driving the course.

Basically, its as others have stated. Confusing enough to be twisted into whatever mood the claims adjuster is in for that day.

Also I asked if I decided to turn my car into a full blown race car, did they offer racing insurance and they said no. They do not other insurance for racing or for carrying passengers for profit. I have heard that the NASA events do offer one day race insurance for $100 or so, but there's still a decent deductible (like $4k if I remember right). I guess this is more geared towards the guys racing $70k+ cars, and not us $17k guys.

[ 11-21-2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: SlickShoes ]

jwardell · Nov 21, 2002

I doubt any company offers it. But I thought I remember SCCA membership including some kind of insurance coverage for autocross etc.

Otherwise, if something happens, find a way to move your car down the street, and just say it happenned while driving normall.

belacyrf · Nov 21, 2002

Well think about it this way, sure you can get your car fixed, but your rates are going to climb BIG time!
I think if your going to do this, you have one of three options:
#1 Find an insurance company that will cover you while driving in controlled "educational" track environments, and just take the hit on your insurance if an accident ever comes.
#2 Get race insurance strictly to cover your car at the track. http://www.wisenberg.com/mtrsprts.htm will cover a race car and all the tools within it or around up to 47.000 for 800.00 a year. $67 A month. Quite a bit, but it's going to depend where your priorities lie.

Personally I hope to make this car my track car some day, and if it brakes.. oh well!

But I think Gary's accident while horrible and unfortuante is a rare occurance from what I've read and heard!

SlickShoes · Nov 22, 2002

Originally posted by belacyrf:
But I think Gary's accident while horrible and unfortuante is a rare occurance from what I've read and heard!

Exactly, when I spoke with Aaron the other day he mentioned that there was absolutely no skidmarks prior to the gouges in the asphalt. So it totally appears that the tire just blew out or slipped off the rim. Talk about Murphy's Law...

JaySD · Nov 22, 2002

I think it is saying if the car is there for the purpose of A or B

So if I am in the parking lot and someone hits me I would be ok.

That was the statement from your policy and they are still covering it?

garyrich · Nov 22, 2002

Thing is, it doesn't matter what you or I think it says or even what the ins company thinks it says. It says what it says and if it's ambiguous a judge gets to decide what it means. If the ins company has any brains at all they don't want that - which is why I continually surprised at how vague and poorly written some of this stuff is.

It wasn't any sort of racing or agreed upon speed *contest* or speed demonstration. And it wasn't practice or preparation for any such event. It hasn't even come up, but I wanted to make sure that I really was covered before I filed a claim.

clemsonzx3 · Nov 22, 2002

Originally posted by belacyrf:

#2 Get race insurance strictly to cover your car at the track. http://www.wisenberg.com/mtrsprts.htm will cover a race car and all the tools within it or around up to 47.000 for 800.00 a year. $67 A month.

I'm not sure if it's the same company, but I remember there being an insurance company that covered race cars having an advertisement in Grassroots Motorsports magazine.

JaySD · Nov 22, 2002

hmm..

guess ill just have to see. real question is weather to spend the money and go to willow in dec or just wait till next year.. participation for our group seems low for it, and you guys keep saying the willow large track is really a fast highpower deal, not a focus' forte

[ 11-22-2002, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: JaySD ]

belacyrf · Nov 22, 2002

If you go on speed ventures website, and look at the event records. You can see that buttonwillow average MPH's is like 70's, Streets of Willow are like high 60's and The BIG track at willow is in the 100's. So the average speed is 30 MPH's faster at the big track vs buttonwillow and the streets. The focus will do much better at a technical track than a balls to the wall track, and plus the potential for damage to your car increases at the higher speeds. Technical tracks might spin you out a bit more often, but at lower speeds, you won't see to much damage!

JaySD · Nov 22, 2002

Whats the avg speed at pahrump?

belacyrf · Nov 22, 2002

Pahrump avg MPH's were 68-70 or so. So it's a good track for the focus as well!!

Here's an ariel view of the track!! Very fun looking:

[ 11-22-2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: belacyrf ]

OmniFocus · Nov 22, 2002

Wow... That looks like a blast! It looks like a good track to learn braking points and lines through a sweeper... which IMO are two of the tougher things to learn on a track.

It doesn't appear to have any elevation changes though... But that's okay.

I'm a sucker for hills... it seems to add some extra dimension to the track.

garyrich · Nov 22, 2002

Originally posted by SlickShoes:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by belacyrf:
But I think Gary's accident while horrible and unfortuante is a rare occurance from what I've read and heard!

Exactly, when I spoke with Aaron the other day he mentioned that there was absolutely no skidmarks prior to the gouges in the asphalt. So it totally appears that the tire just blew out or slipped off the rim. Talk about Murphy's Law...<hr /></blockquote>Yeah, at this point it seems pretty clear that the front inside tire tire failed on that corner and sent me into a spin. The bare wheel was then the perfect thing to hook into the mud and cause it to flip. In a way that better than that it happened because I did something stupid, but in another way the end result is the same and I'm still walking for another week or two and my insurance rate will still go up the same amount either way.

Hondo88 · Nov 22, 2002

Originally posted by jwardell:
I doubt any company offers it. But I thought I remember SCCA membership including some kind of insurance coverage for autocross etc.

Thats the SCCA Participant Accident Medical Program. Covers you if you get hurt.
And I guess it gets used. The Insurance Co. Website claims;

Last year we had a couple of incidents that, but for the fact that the injured party had substantial personal insurance, would have come close to exhausting the $500,000 limit.

This year, we have already had an incident that will probably exceed the $500,000.

Oh, and they also offer race car insurance

Aww, oh no =/

JaySD

garyrich

SlickShoes

jwardell

belacyrf

SlickShoes

JaySD

garyrich

clemsonzx3

JaySD

belacyrf

JaySD

belacyrf

OmniFocus

garyrich

Hondo88

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