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Guys, come to think of it, why does damn Ford design the airbag with a deploying force that is strong enough to break the windshield AND burn the drivers? I am thinking, is Focus the only car thawith airbag that deploys to "somewhat" save you and break the glass the same time? Or are there other vehicles that do it too? Here is my story, shortly after I got my 00 Focus from dealer, like 2 months or so, had a right-frontal at 25-30mph hitting a dumb S Kia's right rear due to the driver of the Kia "failed to yield oncoming traffic". Anyway, the point is, if some of you said the airbags are designed to deploy at 15mph, why didn't mine deploy? I am starting to worry that if I hit someone next time, knock on wood, at 40-45 mph and the airbags still don't deploy, I might be saying goodbye to my family forever..... (Damn, I am shipping the car to my grandpa's house in Toronto ASAP.)
 
i don't know why you guys are complaining so much about bad quality. the whole reason i got this car was b/c it was a really cheap car, my only option was a/c.

and the reason ford cut so much from the european models is b/c i know (my bro-in-law lived his first 23 years in scotland) that europeans can't afford the gas, or need the hudge luxary cars we have. they don't have big "boats" like we have hear w/ buick etc. it's practical for them to get a small car that has all the added options they get. think of all the customers ford would have lost if they raised the price for quality here in the sates, i definatly wouldn't have one
 
Yes i have to Agree on the air bags just last month i wrecked my ZX3 into the back of a S-10 pick up at like 35 mph only thing it did to his truck was knocked the rear bumber off and put a tiny scratch on the tail gate my car however wasnt so lucky i did $6,436 of damage to my car ALONE the whole front end had to be replaced winsheild, bumber, both head lights,radiator,1 fender, and bunch of others cant list them all the passanger side air bag caught fire they had to call the fire depart to put it out it wasn't anything big they just reached in there and smacked the flame out a few times. also i had a 1st degree burn up my left arm from my air bag it hurt like hell for 2 weeks....
 
Yes i have to Agree on the air bags just last month i wrecked my ZX3 into the back of a S-10 pick up at like 35 mph only thing it did to his truck was knocked the rear bumber off and put a tiny scratch on the tail gate my car however wasnt so lucky i did $6,436 of damage to my car ALONE the whole front end had to be replaced winsheild, bumber, both head lights,radiator,1 fender, and bunch of others cant list them all the passanger side air bag caught fire they had to call the fire depart to put it out it wasn't anything big they just reached in there and smacked the flame out a few times. also i had a 1st degree burn up my left arm from my air bag it hurt like hell for 2 weeks....
 
Here is the real info:

1) Passenger side airbags use the front window for additional rear structure (Watch high speed film of an interior during an event). Windows being cracked with bag deployments are considered normal for OEMs. Many top mount bags deploy initially up and then out towards the passenger, the window controls the trajectory and force of the bag. If you have a windshield replaced make sure it is correctly attached to the window frame, otheriwse you pass. bag performance may greatly reduced.

2) OEMs cannot test for every single (Non-regulated) crash mode. If people only knew what it takes to calibrate the system you would be amazed. Also remember that cars are designed to absorb energy which means signal transmissability is not always good. I need a good signal to make a good deployment decision, but soft vehicles can make this difficult. A pole or off-set frontal crash are not always easy to detect. Also some no-so severe events can trick systems i.e. curb impacts. The pole point loads the vehicle and depending where it contacts the signal may not be sufficient. The damage is nasty, but the pulse wasn't. This is the nature of crash sensing.

3) If you can find me a $5 passenger sensor to reliably detect ALL potential people and sitting positions all OEMs would be contacting you. It does not exist! If you read the new law (FMVSS208)starting phase-in in MY 2004 we will start using smart sensors and they are no where near $5.

Sorry for the rave, but way too many "Crash/Sensor Engineers" who don't know jack about how the system really works...

Dearbron Blue Oval

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Dearborn Blue Oval ]

[ 04-10-2002: Message edited by: Dearborn Blue Oval ]</p>
 
Thanks for the clarification Dearborn Blue Oval. I am sure we all appreciate getting the info. I for one can also say that multi-stage/level sensors of any kind are not cheap. I built my own custom brick for use in the Lego Mindstorms kit, and each sensor ended up costing me $38 to make. Quite a bit of difference, considering a simple one stage sensor would have only cost me $.79

Getting information like this would make me more confident in selecting a car. I only hope that the higherups of Ford hear this. As for airbags, my '89 doesn't have any worries in that department...
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dearborn Blue Oval:
Here is the real info:

3) If you can find me a $5 passenger sensor to reliably detect ALL potential people and sitting positions all OEMs would be contacting you. It does not exist! If you read the new law (FMVSS208)starting phase-in in MY 2004 we will start using smart sensors and they are no where near $5.
<hr></blockquote>

Sorry I don't buy that you could not cheaply design a switch to check if someone weighing at least 75 pounds is sitting in the passenger seat and only then arm the passenger airbag.

How many thousands of dollars of replacement parts are required when the passenger airbag deploys? At a minimum we are talking about the airbag assembly itself, the windshield and the instrument cluster (which has to be replaced per the Ford service manual CD) when probably in >95% of the cases there is nobody sitting in the passenger seat.
 
ratch, You've got to remember that it also needs to know where the seat is at and if the passenger is buckled. Probably some more inputs too that I wouldn't know.

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: seminole_kev ]</p>
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by seminole_kev:
ratch, You've got to remember that it also needs to know where the seat is at and if the passenger is buckled. Probably some more inputs to that I wouldn't know.<hr></blockquote>

I'm not asking for advanced stuff that will deploy the airbag at different force depnding on the weight, position, whatever of the passenger and whether they are bucled or not. I don't see why ou couldn't have the switch mounted to the seat frame, so it slides when the seat slides.
 
I've had like.....4 front end collisions in my ZX3....first 3 didnt doploy the airbags....fastest of those 3 was like 15-20mph...slowest was like...2...lol...

My big wreck (just happened like 2 months ago) put my car in the shop for a month, left over 10K in damage+repairs and totaled the offending vehicle (the car that pulled out in front of me). All this at like 40mph.....airbags deployed but didnt even touch me, I wasnt hurt at all, but I damn near choked to death on the smoke from the airbags
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My boss told me that he saw a news thing on TV the other day about the Focus. Something about a problem with the car they can't figure how it even got to the showroom floor. Possible electrical fires , etc.
Anybody know anything ,please let me know...i'm about to make a cross country move from Atlanta, to Denver...

thanks
dan
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In the long run what does this mean? More recalls that will be needed to fix our cars or do you think there is a chance that Ford will let us trade in our cars for another Focus? Just wondering how this will affect us in the Foci Community later on down the road.
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dan Townsend:
My boss told me that he saw a news thing on TV the other day about the Focus. Something about a problem with the car they can't figure how it even got to the showroom floor. Possible electrical fires , etc.
Anybody know anything ,please let me know...i'm about to make a cross country move from Atlanta, to Denver...

thanks
dan
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I wouldnt worry too much I have driven to Denver and back to Chicago 4 times in the Focus and not once felt a problem. All I can say is if something doesnt feel right or you smell something funny your better pulling over and checking it out.
 
Remember what I said "reliably detect ALL potential people and sitting positions" there are fairly complicated systems that can have challenges with meeting both of those requirements. I've seen proposals from all of the major Tier 1 and 2 suppliers regarding this exact subject and so I am working with this subject 1st hand and there is nobody even close to a $5 sensor that has reliable detection for all occupants and all sitting positions. Like I said I guess anyone can be a Sensor Engineer...


If I could deliver a $5 sensor I would be a hero! However, when I go home @ night I take with it the people that depend on my safety systems. Do you realize we are talking of life and death? What do you think you get for $5? Want to put your kid or a family member in that sear and get into a nasty frontal?

Not to be nasty, but a lot of the OEM bean counters think like you. Too far from the trenches to really know, take my word for it...

Dearborn Blue Oval

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by raitchison:


Sorry I don't buy that you could not cheaply design a switch to check if someone weighing at least 75 pounds is sitting in the passenger seat and only then arm the passenger airbag.

How many thousands of dollars of replacement parts are required when the passenger airbag deploys? At a minimum we are talking about the airbag assembly itself, the windshield and the instrument cluster (which has to be replaced per the Ford service manual CD) when probably in >95% of the cases there is nobody sitting in the passenger seat.
<hr></blockquote>
 
This includes simple presence detection...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dearborn Blue Oval:
Remember what I said "reliably detect ALL potential people and sitting positions" there are fairly complicated systems that can have challenges with meeting both of those requirements. I've seen proposals from all of the major Tier 1 and 2 suppliers regarding this exact subject and so I am working with this subject 1st hand and there is nobody even close to a $5 sensor that has reliable detection for all occupants and all sitting positions. Like I said I guess anyone can be a Sensor Engineer...


If I could deliver a $5 sensor I would be a hero! However, when I go home @ night I take with it the people that depend on my safety systems. Do you realize we are talking of life and death? What do you think you get for $5? Want to put your kid or a family member in that sear and get into a nasty frontal?

Not to be nasty, but a lot of the OEM bean counters think like you. Too far from the trenches to really know, take my word for it...

Dearborn Blue Oval

<hr></blockquote>
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by superzx3:


The airbag burnt my arm pretty bad too...

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When the air bags went off in my SVT Contour, they burned both my arms as well...i thought that's just the way airbags worked??? Am I wrong???
 
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dearborn Blue Oval:
This includes simple presence detection...
<hr></blockquote>

So your saying that the most simple presence detection evices would be expensive???

I don't think it's necessary to have a sensor to detect if there is a 185# person with the seatback at 75 degrees and the seat 5/8 of the way back but a "person/no person" switch should easily be doable.
 
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