Banning R-tires from the stock classes

Ataru · Jan 30, 2004

I have been posting on a local motorsports board called Green Country Motorsports. They have been discussing what people think about R compound tires in stock classes. You can find the thread here.

Read over the discussion there and mention what you think here. Please don't flood that board. If they start to see new members posting, all owning a Focus, they will know it was me that caused the mess since I am the only one on there with a Focus.

You will have to pardon my sidetracking in that thread about my driving as I was happy to get some good feedback from a seasoned veteran.

What is everyone's feelings on R compound tires being allowed in the stock classes?

djsilver · Jan 30, 2004

Go to SCCAFORUMS.COM to witness a real free for all on this subject http://www.sccaforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=000650

My impression is that the tire companies provide enough of the sponsorship and incentive money in the sport that DOT-R's won't be going away anytime soon. For the record, I run Falken Azeni's in stock class because they're cheeper and I'm not fast enough that the DOT'R's would make up the difference between me and the top dogs.

Ataru · Jan 30, 2004

Did you notice that the same person started both of those threads.

MichaelXi · Jan 30, 2004

R-Compounds WILL Stick around.
In a class that allows relatively Few mods, it's One thing a person can do to play "Walter Mitty" for a day and run his stock car more quickly than by any other means.
Not to mention the ruckus of re-calculating all of the PAX Indexes....

Qbert · Jan 30, 2004

Most street tires that can keep up with Azenis are more then the R-comps. So there really isn't all that much savings involved. A lot of people can't handle having Azenis on their cars all year either, due to weather and/or the amount of miles they drive.

That is my feeling on the subject.

OmniFocus · Jan 30, 2004

Here is my take on the situation:

Shortly before the creation of STS and STX, ALL classes allowed some form of R-compound or slick (for prepared and modified).

Now that STS has opened up the street tire venue, I feel it wrong to take back the priveledge from us. I enjoy R-compound tires.

I think for a lot of people it comes down to affordability... I can understand this, but after the economic downturn, I make about the same as a pair of socks a week, yet I choose to pay for race tires. You gotta pay to play!

BUR_ZX3 · Jan 30, 2004

Eh... as long as they're DOT Legal, I don't see what the big effin deal is.

Sensei · Jan 30, 2004

Omni is right. "You gotta pay to play"

R's tires are not that pricey and they can really up the fun factor on any car.

Keep-em!

svtfocuskenzie · Jan 30, 2004

If I could afford to, i would run them daily.

They are SO much fun!
For now, once a month is a blast on our victoracers.

SVTBuckeye · Jan 30, 2004

Most serious Solo types will buy a different set of tires and wheels for events. That is true due to the difference in the results with shaved tread. Also, the wear on a normal 12-13/32 new tread, what with chunking etc. will move the competitor to want a tire for just Solo.

So, it is a choice between having R compound on a second set of wheels, and the same second set that is not R compound.

The hot dogs will buy something like Azinas, shave them, even use some of that tread chemical treatment, and have an advantage.

The downside to R compound is that newbies see the investment and are scared away after the first event. They are way behind the fast R compound guys, for many reasons, one of which is the tires.

There are no perfect solutions, as long as serious Solo folks are going to do what it takes for the edge.

Egz · Jan 30, 2004

I don't care. I'm far from HS.

P-51 · Jan 30, 2004

I find that R compounds are like snow tires... there is an initial layout that a lot of people balk at, but really, they don't *actually* cost any more.

For example, snow tires, you buy them and run them during the winter. Sure, they cost some money to buy, but figure you're putting less milage on your summer tires, how could one say they cost more? Then factor in the extra safety, and it's a no-brainer.

Same deal with R compounds. RA-1's cost about the same price as most decent high performance street tires. Sure, you have to buy them, but if you didn't, you'd be burning up your street tires anyway. In some cases, the R's will last LONGER than street tires anyway, so it's actually a savings.

So, I think they're a good idea... not even factoring in the quantum leap in performance...

What I DO have a problem with is things like the Hoosiers. Ultra expensive, they wear fast, and aren't even suitable for street use at all. I don't like felling like I have to spend $250/tire to be competitive, and they only last 5 events...

That pushes it over the top I think. They should put some stricter limits on the tires. More tread, and real steel belts...

djsilver · Jan 30, 2004

OmniFocus is correct in that "you have to pay to play" It's your choice how hard you want to play. For clarification, my Azenis are autocross only tires. Here's my decision guide based on;
1. I have a two driver car (that affects tire life)
2. Our skill level; We're not close enough to the top dogs yet for tires to make up the difference (I've heard that the difference between the Azenis/MX's and the DOT-R's is anywhere from 2-6% in run times).
3. Tire cost
4. How hard do we want to play?

Here's the cost (TireRack/DicountDirect) for the most popular tires in 205/50/15 (not shaved or heat cycled) These prices include $30 shipping, where applicable, and $40 for mount and balance.

AzeniSport $348
Ecsta MX $386
Ecsta V700 $518
Ecsta Victo$530
Ecsta V710 $602
Hoosier A3S03 $762
Hoosier A3S04 $778

Our yearly autox tire cost for Azeni's/MX's is one set for about $350-400.

Our yearly autox tire cost for DOT-R's would be two sets and about $1,100 (Kuhmo's) to $1,600 (Hoosiers)

We don't have a national level driver in our region to compare against but we go to another region to run against a guy who's won SEDIV regional events in HS. I'm typically 4-5 seconds behind him on a 70 second course. When I can get within 3 seconds of him, I'll buy DOT-R's.

Euro Ford Fan · Jan 30, 2004

I don't see anything wrong with running an R in stock classes Up here in my region you get two prep points in stock class an if you want those could be used for running R's. I would choose a set of Azenis, air filter and a rear sway to use those two points but that's just me.

I've got a set of Hoosiers sitting in my garage that I don't think I'll use until half way though my season this year. I'm still way to green to benefit from their available grip and the last thing I want is to ruin a set of expensive tires.

Egz · Jan 30, 2004

I find that R compounds are like snow tires... there is an initial layout that a lot of people balk at, but really, they don't *actually* cost any more.

I disagree. I've never had a snow tire, but I'm willing to bet you don't buy a set or two every winter.

s2d2 · Jan 30, 2004

R-Compounds WILL Stick around.

P-51 · Jan 30, 2004

I disagree. I've never had a snow tire, but I'm willing to bet you don't buy a set or two every winter.

I don't get what you're saying...

Snow tires typically last 2-5 winters, depending on what you buy and how far you drive. Sure, it's an extra set of tires that you don't need but figure you're putting milage on them and not your all-seasons... and how could one say it costs more?

Same deal with Rcompounds. Sure, it's an extra set of tires, but if you run your street tires, you'll be tearing them up fast, and need to replace them more than you would if you weren't racing on them. Not to mention, RA-1s will last longer in racing situations than street tires...

Egz · Jan 30, 2004

Not disagreeing on the fact that summer/street tires will last longer. I'm disagreeing on the fact that I'm always hearing people buying a set or two of R-compounds every year.

P-51 · Jan 30, 2004

That I don't get... I guess it depends what you're buying. This kinda gets back into the thing I mentioned about Hoosiers...

My RA-1's, I've put something like 8 autocrosses, 5000 street miles, and 1000 track-day miles on them, and they still have tread left. They're fricken Energizer Bunnys man. The only reason I'm not running them still is because they don't fit over my brakes.

I'm actually looking to sell the set for $100.

That's why I don't like Hoosiers and that breed of tire. It's too extreme, and THAT's what makes R-compounds expensive.

There should be a requirement for a minimum tread depth of say... 6/32nds, steel belts, and the ability to clear some amount of standing water, and a treadwear of 60.

Racing slicks with 1 groove cut in them... should not be allowed.

schnack · Jan 31, 2004

Most Regional events have street tire classes anyway...newbie's need not get discouraged. The big boys with their r's stay in another class. I don't see the point....If you are really into to autocrossing, once you have r's you never want to go back.

I run my MX's at regional events sometimes, it's so frustrating....It takes me about 3 laps just to relearn how to drive on street tires again.

The only people that would be buying more than one set of r's per season, are those that race multiple day events, all season. I ran 4 two day events, and at least 6 one day events on my Hoosiers. They have just under 60 runs on them. Sure they are rock hard, but probably still better then the victo's.

They might have another 10 runs left.

I still think there worth it.....it's the price of performance baby.

R's are here to stay!

Banning R-tires from the stock classes

Ataru

djsilver

Ataru

MichaelXi

Qbert

OmniFocus

BUR_ZX3

Sensei

svtfocuskenzie

SVTBuckeye

Egz

P-51

djsilver

Euro Ford Fan

Egz

s2d2

P-51

Egz

P-51

schnack

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