Unfair speed limit = a ticket.

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

EDIT: This is not a moral discussion on speeding. It is purely legal and scientific.
Also not all states are set up the same, some are more reasonable than others. In CT for example Highway speed limits are often 40 mph

Also now that I think about it might be better in a regional forum but the problem is where I live that could be either Team New England or Team Mid Atlantic, that’s why I posted it here.

I was poking around and I found this on the CT DOT website.

Now my question is this, If I got a ticket on a road where the limit is below the 85% can I argue that the speed limit itself was dangerously low, especially when identical roads elsewhere in the state have a higher limits?

Dose anyone know how to find out when the last roadway analysis was conducted, and what the 85% speed really is?

A technical analysis is done on the results to determine the 85th percentile speed. This is the value indicating the speed under which most (85%) drivers are travelling. Experience has shown that a posted speed limit near this value is the safe and reasonable speed.

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

WON'T LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT REDUCE SPEEDS?
NO. Studies show that there is little change in the speed pattern after the posting of a speed limit. The driver is much more influenced by the roadway conditions.

WILL LOWERING THE SPEED LIMIT REDUCE ACCIDENT FREQUENCY?
NO. Although lowering the speed limit is often seen as a cure-all in preventing accidents, this is not the case. Accidents are most often the result of driver inattention and driver error.
If a posted speed limit is unrealistically low, it creates a speed variance (i.e. some drivers follow the speed limit while most drive the reasonable speed). This speed variance can contribute to accidents.

WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE SPEED LIMITS?
A uniform speed of vehicles in a traffic flow results in the safest operation. The posted speed limits can keep the traffic flowing smoothly provided the majority of drivers find the speed limits reasonable. To do this, the limits must be consistent throughout the state.
The speed limits also give the motorist an idea of a reasonable speed to drive in an unfamiliar location.
The speed limits are used by police officials to identify excessive speeds and curb unreasonable behavior.

WHOM DO I CONTACT?

If you believe there is a safety concern or an inappropriate speed limit posted, the person to contact depends on the type of road.
EXPRESSWAYS
For regulatory and advisory speed limits on the expressway system, you may contact the STC.

FROM

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

Also found this...

(c) Any person who violates any provision of subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section or who operates a motor vehicle (1) on a multiple lane, limited access highway at a rate of speed greater than seventy miles per hour but not greater than eighty-five miles per hour or (2) on any other highway at a rate of speed greater than sixty miles per hour but not greater than eighty-five miles per hour shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than one hundred fifty dollars, provided any such person operating a truck, as defined in section 14-260n, shall be fined not less than one hundred fifty dollars nor more than two hundred dollars.

My ticket was for $279

BUR_ZX3 · Nov 10, 2004

Gotta go to the citys traffic engineering office and request a copy of the survey.

Did this once to fight a ticket in LA and won!

xerofall · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

Dev · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

Or you could get run off the road. Ever been behind someone that is doing 55MPH in the fast lane? Thats the posted limit but the flow of traffic is 10-15MPH faster.

FocusOnPunk · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

That’s the whole point I’m questioning the states definition of speeding.

READ what I posted.

Also the state seems to have artificially lower speed limits in my county when compared to rest of the state. They are low even by CT standards.

You are going to tell me that speed limits of 40 mph on highways are reasonable?
No I’m not kidding allot of highway in my area has a speed limit of 40 when the majority of the population dose about 75-85.

When it is not safe to go that fast people naturally slow down. Its not unusual for traffic to be doing 85, then slow down to 50 then speed up to 85 with NO speed limit signs posted. The reason is people drive what they feel safe doing.

What the STATE just said is true when people travel less than the reasonable speed (say for example a super low posted limit) they are causing a safety hazard for other drivers EVEN if they are following the traffic laws!

In the particular situation I was in I felt that “speeding” was the safest way to accomplish what I was doing. Because safety was a concern of mine I was not about to slam on my brakes and risk causing a crash to avoid a “speed trap”

If you “must know” what happened I was traveling with traffic in the middle lane and my exit was about 2 exits away. There was traffic merging onto the highway in the right lane, so rather than disrupt that and ad another car from the left. I decided to pass the car in front of me, get back into the middle lane, and then get into the right lane (there was no traffic ahead.

I made the pass, and then pulled into the middle lane. Jus then as I was coming around a curve in the road there was a trooper with a speed trap. Since I just moved in front of this car I wasn’t going to SLAM on the brakes.

The trooper then put his lights on and pointed at me and signaled with his hands to pull over. So I got into the right lane, reduced speed and pulled over in front of him.

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

Click to expand...

Or you could get run off the road. Ever been behind someone that is doing 55MPH in the fast lane? Thats the posted limit but the flow of traffic is 10-15MPH faster.

I have been run of the road before BTW.

And in CT the difference between the speed of traffic, and the posted limit isn’t just 10-15 mph, its more like double the posted limit. It is also Illegal in CT to drive in the left hand lane, the left is legally a passing only lane. If you pull into the left lane and do 55 you WILL NOT be treated nicely.

This can be pretty dangerous because you wind up with cars in the right hand lane doing about 40-55 and cars in the passing lane doing 85-90. This can be VERY frustrating if your trying to go, say 65.When you try to merge onto the highway you get stuck behind some bozo going 40 in the right hand lane, and then you have to wait 5-10 minutes for an opening in the left hand lane to pass.

If some dumb ass tries to do the speed limit in the left hand lane (usually someone from out of state) all hell brakes lose.

Most people in CT are pretty good drivers to be honest, but there are some REAL dumb asses on the road, and retarded auto laws, and bad enforcement that combine in some HORRIFIC accidents.

The ones of interest are when a Corolla cut of a tanker truck carrying heating fuel, forced the truck into the guard rail where it burst open and spilled fuel onto the roadway. The fuel then exploded, and melted the highway, and causing its partial collapse. The highway had to be closed in BOT directions for about a week wile temporary bridges were put in place. The part destroyed was just finished being built about a week prior. (this was I-95 no one was killed)

Another one that comes to mind is someone in a Mercedes came around a bend to fast in the rain, lost control, and crashed into a rest stop gas station. The station then exploded killing the driver of the car. (Merrit Parkway /Rout 15)

When you say there was an accident on a highway you picture 2 cars colliding flipping, exploding, and then shredding to peaces. And to be honest it wouldn’t surprise me if this was caused by excessively slow cars hitting excessively fast cars.

CTZX3 · Nov 10, 2004

If you “must know” what happened I was traveling with traffic in the middle lane and my exit was about 2 exits away. There was traffic merging onto the highway in the right lane, so rather than disrupt that and ad another car from the left. I decided to pass the car in front of me, get back into the middle lane, and then get into the right lane (there was no traffic ahead.

I made the pass, and then pulled into the middle lane. Jus then as I was coming around a curve in the road there was a trooper with a speed trap. Since I just moved in front of this car I wasn’t going to SLAM on the brakes.

The trooper then put his lights on and pointed at me and signaled with his hands to pull over. So I got into the right lane, reduced speed and pulled over in front of him.

what was wrong with staying in hte middle lane

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

what was wrong with staying in hte middle lane

Cars in the right lane were trying to move into the middle lane to make room for traffic getting on the highway. I wound up with a car directly to my right, and a car in front of me, and no way to get into the right hand lane. I wasn’t about to cut someone off to get into the right hand lane.

xerofall · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

Click to expand...

That’s the whole point I’m questioning the states definition of speeding.

They have signs posting the limits... that's not adequet enough definition?

I did read your post and I know what you are saying, but the jist of your entire thread was about trying to find a way out of your speeding ticket by quoting laws from your state and questioning them.

My short, and to the point retort was to not speed and you'll never get a speeding ticket again.

Pak · Nov 10, 2004

Or you could just not speed.

Click to expand...

That’s the whole point I’m questioning the states definition of speeding.

Click to expand...

They have signs posting the limits... that's not adequet enough definition?

I did read your post and I know what you are saying, but the jist of your entire thread was about trying to find a way out of your speeding ticket by quoting laws from your state and questioning them.

My short, and to the point retort was to not speed and you'll never get a speeding ticket again.

Not to be offensive..but can you honestly say that you don't speed? I mean, c'mon. Everyone speeds once, and most people will go with the flow of traffic. I'm going to completely agree with rpvitiello about the ways that states come up with their speed limits, and how sometimes they are completely unfair. If you look at traffic jams, I can almost guarantee that around 50% or more are caused on the basis that there are a few individuals who hold up everyone because they decide to stick to the speed limit when they can travel safely (per weather and road conditions) faster, or with the majority of the traffic flow.

And....I don't see what is wrong with him passing on the left when he felt it was safer to do so then to tap the brakes and slow down for merging traffic. If the space was available to him, and it was the safer route, then why not? I'd prefer this over getting on the brakes, knowingly causing a brief traffic back-up, or even an accident. And I'm sure that the cop picked that spot out just because he knew that someone would instead speed up and pass on the left rather than slow down for the merging traffic.

xerofall · Nov 10, 2004

I don't speed.

I've gotten two tickets in my 15 years of driving and that was for improper car registration and counterfieting a government document.

Was it unfair, yes, but I did it... I paid for it, did my time and don't do it anymore. I didn't post about it and try to find loop-holes in the law to avoid a mistake I made.

Take more responsibility for your driving habits.

If you read the majority of his posts you will see a pattern emerge... he is in a hurry a lot and gets into situations as a result of that. Are some his fault? No.

But the easiest way to avoid a speeding tickit is to not speed.

I knew I'd get grief from making that statement, but that's the simplest way to avoid the situations he's getting into.

Why is it always someone elses fault when you get a ticket?

Blis · Nov 10, 2004

Also found this...

(c) Any person who violates any provision of subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this section or who operates a motor vehicle (1) on a multiple lane, limited access highway at a rate of speed greater than seventy miles per hour but not greater than eighty-five miles per hour or (2) on any other highway at a rate of speed greater than sixty miles per hour but not greater than eighty-five miles per hour shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars nor more than one hundred fifty dollars, provided any such person operating a truck, as defined in section 14-260n, shall be fined not less than one hundred fifty dollars nor more than two hundred dollars.

Click to expand...

My ticket was for $279

The rest is administrative fees and other junk they pile up on you. I got a $25 ticket, plus all the fees, anded up being $127. ugh.

rpvitiello · Nov 10, 2004

My short, and to the point retort was to not speed and you'll never get a speeding ticket again.

[censored]

I have been pulled over for doing the speed limit before and was told i was speeding.

Example:
I was coming up to an intersection in the left lane where there was a red light. There was a cop sopped in the right lane, and another car stopped behind the cop. The light turned green so i went through the intersection and sped up to the speed limit. (I was making DAM sure not to be speeding knowing a cop was right there) The cop follows me in my blind spot for a few minutes, blocking me from being able to get over into the right hand lane. Then wile im driving he shins he spot light at me blinding me for a second. He then puts on his lights for me to pull over, and tells me i was doing 10 mph over the speed limnit (40mph) when i know DAM well i wasnt.

I told him he was wrong flat to his face and that i was watching my speed very carefull knowing he was there. He said my speedo was off.
I then asked him if the "your speed" Signs were accurate and he assured me that since they were part of the police department they were infact correct. I told him then his speedo must be off cuz i drove by one of those earlier today and they were dead on.

that instance he was "nice" and gave me a warning.

Also where i live there are no entrance ramps, and if you try and get on a highway slowly you can get rear ended, this almost happned to me before when someone merget at 40 mph in a 40mph zone when traffic was doing 75, I thought for sure i was getting rear ended but the car behind me missed by like 2 inches.

Every day when i go to work i have to floor my car onto the highways from a stop and do a 0-80 mph run. You stop, look as far back on the highway as you can see till it bends, and then when there is an opening FLOOR it to 80. Many times i have gotten on the highway here with no cars to be seen, and then within seconds have someone on my ass.

I don't care who you are or how you drive you have to do this to not get KILLED at this junction. I see 80 year old grandmothers peal out on this highway entrance to get up to speed safely.

I’m not about to risk getting in a car accident by following the traffic laws to a T. I have tried that before and trust me that dose not work here, i have had plenty of bad experiences.

Like I said I did NOT post this thread to argue the morals of speeding, I’m simply asking legal questions, either contribute to what I asked, or reframe from posting to this thread. You do not live where I live, or drive where I drive, or know what it’s like to do so.

MUTTLEE · Nov 10, 2004

Why did you stop? You can't get a ticket if you don't stop. You have a Focus it will out-handle anything on the road. You had the jump on him. Next time you see a trooper point his finger at you, flip him off. I want to see you on Fox News!

jwardell · Nov 10, 2004

And this is why highways in CT get rubbernecked at 60 mph. Only 2 lanes. Someone goes slow in the left lane, and it's illegal to pass in the right.

If you think the limits are off their, head up to boston. Our highways are still at 55 yet 85% of traffic goes 85. Cops don't enforce but when they get bored/need money you get randomly selected and hit hard.

According to the NMA the revenue from speeding tickets equals the pron industry.

I understand that in many parts of the country "slow down" is a vailid argument. But in the NE the limits stay low while traffic goes much faster--if you were even following the "10 over" rule, you would be getting so many people mad you would be attributing to road rage.

I just think its ridiculous that all other laws are practical and a normal person wouldn't think of breaking them, yet speeding everyone breaks every day because it's not reasonable. You would think something would have been done about that long ago. Oh thats right, it makes them a ton of money, that's why.

BowDown · Nov 11, 2004

I don't speed.

I've gotten two tickets in my 15 years of driving and that was for improper car registration and counterfieting a government document.

Was it unfair, yes, but I did it... I paid for it, did my time and don't do it anymore. I didn't post about it and try to find loop-holes in the law to avoid a mistake I made.

Take more responsibility for your driving habits.

If you read the majority of his posts you will see a pattern emerge... he is in a hurry a lot and gets into situations as a result of that. Are some his fault? No.

But the easiest way to avoid a speeding tickit is to not speed.

I knew I'd get grief from making that statement, but that's the simplest way to avoid the situations he's getting into.

Why is it always someone elses fault when you get a ticket?

It's people like you that piss me off on the road. That and cell phone drivers. People that don't give two [censored] as to the safety of others on the road, and believe they are right by holding up traffic. Get a life or get off the road.

xerofall · Nov 11, 2004

People going the speed limit pisses you off? That's funny. By going the speed limit I've never held up traffic. There are three other lanes to pass me in if you don't like driving legally.

Since when is obeying posted speed limits not giving two [censored] as to the safety of others?

Ask any Highway Patrol officer what the main cause of accidents on the freeways are and they will say drivers going too fast.

BowDown · Nov 11, 2004

So you're saying that by holding up a lane doing 10-15mph under the crusing speed you're not two [censored] about the safety of the other 99%?

Unfair speed limit = a ticket.

rpvitiello

rpvitiello

BUR_ZX3

xerofall

Dev

FocusOnPunk

rpvitiello

rpvitiello

CTZX3

rpvitiello

xerofall

Pak

xerofall

Blis

rpvitiello

MUTTLEE

jwardell

BowDown

xerofall

BowDown

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