Mazda to design Ford subcompact

rpvitiello · Feb 11, 2006

SilverSVT said:
Another thing to consider with the C1 vs C170 is that Ford was still selling the ZX2/Escort when the Focus came out, thus it doesnt have the same price pressures that the current Focus has. The 2003+ model had to cover from the low to high teens, instead of just the Mid to high teens when it came to pricing. Then add in the UAW costs and discounts on it and well you dont make any money on current car. Yes you would prob sell more C1 Focus then the current car, but at what cost? Ford would totally lose their shirt on each one.

Instead of bringing the focus down-market, why not just not sell anything at the REALLY cheep end. All ford did was lose higher end focus sales by bring it down market, and didn’t. Why would you trade a profitable part of the market for an unprofitable one?! When the focus first came out they sold the most, and for the highest price per car with the fewest incentives. Every year they cheapen it and sell less and less. How is having your sales numbers cut in HALF, and having the price per car dropping a good thing?!

If they want to keep the C170 in the states REALLY strip it, and completely change the sheet metal, and interior, make it a fleet only vehicle, and change the name. If ford needs to just keep workers busy, why not come up with a fleet only brand, and fleet only cars not available for sale directly to the public. Just sell the things at cost, and then make consumer cars for the general public based on what people want.

SpliceVW · Feb 11, 2006

Hey, am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? Anyone who's driven a Mazda3 thinks its a FANTASTIC car.. in fact, I was convincing my girlfriend to buy a Focus until I test drove the 3 she was in love with.

Thameth · Feb 11, 2006

SpliceVW said:
Hey, am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? Anyone who's driven a Mazda3 thinks its a FANTASTIC car.. in fact, I was convincing my girlfriend to buy a Focus until I test drove the 3 she was in love with.

Yea its great.... BECAUSE ITS BASICALY THE EURO FOCUS WE ALL WANT. But some of us think the MKII focus looks better. Plus this is a ford FOCUS website. :evilgrin:

bustonit · Feb 11, 2006

It's great for Ford...not for me. I don't plan on waiting two years to buy another vehicle. So, it won't be a new Ford for me. However, if by the time the 07's are out, and there is a good indication of just what we will be getting, I may be inticed to sit it out and wait. I'd really like it to be a new Ford.

SilverSVT · Feb 11, 2006

rpvitiello said:
Instead of bringing the focus down-market, why not just not sell anything at the REALLY cheep end. All ford did was lose higher end focus sales by bring it down market, and didn’t. Why would you trade a profitable part of the market for an unprofitable one?! When the focus first came out they sold the most, and for the highest price per car with the fewest incentives. Every year they cheapen it and sell less and less. How is having your sales numbers cut in HALF, and having the price per car dropping a good thing?!

If they want to keep the C170 in the states REALLY strip it, and completely change the sheet metal, and interior, make it a fleet only vehicle, and change the name. If ford needs to just keep workers busy, why not come up with a fleet only brand, and fleet only cars not available for sale directly to the public. Just sell the things at cost, and then make consumer cars for the general public based on what people want.

Easier said then done..Ford needs to cover the whole specturm of the market since they are so large. Remeber, Ford is not BMW nor it is any of the smaller Japanese makers out there. They need to make lots of everything since they need to pay the bills. Ford isnt trading the profitilbe market for the unprofitible, they where trying to strech the car to cover both markets where it doesnt do that great, because they have nothing else better out there to cover that market, where they wouldnt even bleed more red ink (like bringing the Festisa over). Its like trying to sell a 30K luxury car (designed at that price point) as a 20K family car. You can do the oppsite (20K car Tarted up to a 30K one, but not vise virsa) but not like what I said before. Just look at the LS and S-type..the DEW98 platform is great, but the LS never made Ford any money, due to its lower price point, dealers not being able to sell them, and the resulting incentives on them.

As for the fleet idea...that would never work and Ford still wouldnt make any money off it. Thats why you see Ford doing all these cut backs...hell the Taraus is nothing but a fleet vehicle and that plant is going bye bye. Not to mention that a large % of fleet sales royally screw up your resale vaules, which Ford is getting away from by only selling 10-20% of total sales of its newer cars to fleets.

As for the Focus sales, well are sure that 13 RECALLS IN ONE YEAR didn't effect the car at all? Nor its less then stellar relaibitly? There are alot more reasons why the Focus isnt sell as well as it once did and its not just because Ford made the car cheaper.

igor2 · Feb 11, 2006

SilverSVT said:
Easier said then done..Ford needs to cover the whole specturm of the market since they are so large. Remeber, Ford is not BMW nor it is any of the smaller Japanese makers out there. They need to make lots of everything since they need to pay the bills. Ford isnt trading the profitilbe market for the unprofitible, they where trying to strech the car to cover both markets where it doesnt do that great, because they have nothing else better out there to cover that market, where they wouldnt even bleed more red ink (like bringing the Festisa over). Its like trying to sell a 30K luxury car (designed at that price point) as a 20K family car. You can do the oppsite (20K car Tarted up to a 30K one, but not vise virsa) but not like what I said before. Just look at the LS and S-type..the DEW98 platform is great, but the LS never made Ford any money, due to its lower price point, dealers not being able to sell them, and the resulting incentives on them.

As for the fleet idea...that would never work and Ford still wouldnt make any money off it. Thats why you see Ford doing all these cut backs...hell the Taraus is nothing but a fleet vehicle and that plant is going bye bye. Not to mention that a large % of fleet sales royally screw up your resale vaules, which Ford is getting away from by only selling 10-20% of total sales of its newer cars to fleets.

As for the Focus sales, well are sure that 13 RECALLS IN ONE YEAR didn't effect the car at all? Nor its less then stellar relaibitly? There are alot more reasons why the Focus isnt sell as well as it once did and its not just because Ford made the car cheaper.

Agreed... The stretching of Focus was necesary based on the slowness of bringing a B segment car.. now when it should be here in 2008 they are supposed to bring the Foccus back where it belongs 14-20k... even though it will be still C170 it is supposed to be a MUHC more imporved vehicle.. because it will have 2 smaller cars to take care of the chaper sales. .the Fiesta and Ecosport.

Igor

rpvitiello · Feb 14, 2006

Yes ford is a bigger company, that means it should have cars directly targeted at EVERY other car on the road from every other manufacturer. They should have more tightly defined brands squarely targeted at each other car company on the market. Instead they have several brands selling cars that should be different trim levels in the same brand. For years Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury were so similar the same dealer started carrying all the name plates, and selling the car just that way, as trim levels, not as different models.

As for the fleet only brand, no it would not directly make ford money, but it would help keep them from losing money on the consumer level. If they literally make a new brand, not ford, not mercury, not Mazda, but an all new brand that was ONLY for fleet use, it would keep they from selling ANY of there “consumer” cars to fleets to water down there resale value of there consumer line. It is better to just not have those factories, or workers at all, bit it would have been a work around to keep workers busy and a almost no cost to ford, and allow the consumer line to not be diluted in value by flooding the market with there cars. Again this brand would NOT be directly for sale to consumers, it would just be cheep POS car appliances for fleet use. There would be no concern about resale value because the only people buying them used would be people looking for a cheep beat to hell fleet car.

Yes and after that recall disaster they should have made the car BETTER, not worse every year. In 2005 they needed a MAJOR redesign (like the C1) launched PROPERALLY. They screwed up big time on there end. The should have saw there WAS a market for a nice premium compact car from ford. They should have really worked to capture this market. Instead they completely gave up and went down market. They did not stretch the focus, the actually moved it down market. I is a “cheaper” lower class car than it was meant to be when it first came out.

After replacing there upper market focus with a lower quality, ½ baked redesign focus they have lost a SIGNIFICANT number of sales wile the small car market is really heating up and EVERY other manufacturer is struggling to get into this market. The focus could have been a HUGE success for Ford in the US, but there old fashion pigheaded way of thinking, “big and cheep is better” killed the Focus in the States. Rather than learning form it and cutting there loses, they continue to make band aid solutions that continue to cost them money.

FSWerksVP · Feb 14, 2006

Jared said:
So, THERE'S THIS ****ING CAR CALLED THE FIESTA, I DUNNO IF ANYONE'S HEARD OF IT?????

**** it.

Preach on brotha!

Thameth · Feb 14, 2006

rpvitiello said:
Yes and after that recall disaster they should have made the car BETTER, not worse every year. In 2005 they needed a MAJOR redesign (like the C1) launched PROPERALLY. They screwed up big time on there end. The should have saw there WAS a market for a nice premium compact car from ford. They should have really worked to capture this market. Instead they completely gave up and went down market. They did not stretch the focus, the actually moved it down market. I is a “cheaper” lower class car than it was meant to be when it first came out.

After replacing there upper market focus with a lower quality, ½ baked redesign focus they have lost a SIGNIFICANT number of sales wile the small car market is really heating up and EVERY other manufacturer is struggling to get into this market. The focus could have been a HUGE success for Ford in the US, but there old fashion pigheaded way of thinking, “big and cheep is better” killed the Focus in the States. Rather than learning form it and cutting there loses, they continue to make band aid solutions that continue to cost them money.

rp,

That was the best post you've ever made!! You hit it right on the head!!! Well said, well said. :thumbup:

Ducman69 · Feb 14, 2006

In 2005 they needed a MAJOR redesign (like the C1) launched PROPERALLY.

PROPERALLY - Function: adverb
Etymology: From latin proprius rally automobilius
Definition: fit for racing on public roads in a point to point format
Ex: When released, the 1999 Ford Focus was clearly properally designed, winning numerous world rally races.

I kid, I kid!

I do completely agree with what you are saying.

Mazda to design Ford subcompact

rpvitiello

SpliceVW

Thameth

bustonit

SilverSVT

igor2

rpvitiello

FSWerksVP

Thameth

Ducman69

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