Putting together the puzzle of the Future of Focus

Thameth · Apr 17, 2006

wilko said:
But wouldnt it matter if the sales were going to Mazda instead of Ford. I know Mazda is part of the Ford conglomerate(sp) and they share alot of technology, but any dollar that goes to Mazda does not go to Ford. Its not like a Ford 500 selling more than a Ford Fusion, there the winner is Ford. Its more like a Pontiac Grand-Am vs a Olds Alero. Pontiac won, and Olds lost.

Uhh thats what i said....... But honestly too yes Mazda and Ford are still two different companies that have to compete even though they are together in a way.

But a Focus stealing sales from Mazda or Mazda stealing sales from Ford is still better for Ford than Nissan Stealing sales from Ford.

You'd still rather have Ford and Mazda with the two top compacts on the market than it being Mazda and Honda for example....

Sharply_Focused · Apr 17, 2006

Thameth said:
Uhh thats what i said....... But honestly too yes Mazda and Ford are still two different companies that have to compete even though they are together in a way.

But a Focus stealing sales from Mazda or Mazda stealing sales from Ford is still better for Ford than Nissan Stealing sales from Ford.

You'd still rather have Ford and Mazda with the two top compacts on the market than it being Mazda and Honda for example....

Right. I believe Ford owns 37% of Mazda. So for every customer that buys a Mazda over a Ford, theoretically, Ford still gets 37% of the Mazda's purchase price. The two companies are still competing for the remaining 63% of the car's price.

Or does that make no sense at all?

igor2 · Apr 17, 2006

^^that is too simplistic.. but is close enough...

The biggest advantage for Ford from its ownership of Mazda (besides amazing Mazda engineers) is that it can have larger volumes on its technology... more units of the Duratec engine, more units of the C1 platform etc, ends up making the price of each lower, by speading the R&D costs

Secondly, Mazda does something for ford GM wanted all of it's brands to do for each other... Mazda buyers would often not even look at Ford or other domastic.. They are closer to Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc buyers... so Ford is covertly making conquests from big competitors, without having a brand that would still need to deal with the stigma of being "domestic" e.g Saturn.

Igor

focaljet-1 · Apr 17, 2006

uujjj said:
Ah, dead thread revival.

The C1's biggest advantage over C170 is its enormous flexibility. It was designed from the ground up with bean counters in mind. Hence why the C1 Focus in Europe sells so cheap, cheaper than the old model in fact. That's also why Ford NA's cost argument against the platform makes no sense.

C1 also has better crash test results.

The C1 is more flexible, which allows other vehicles to be built on it. But, that ability doesn't do anything for the Focus per say.

Just because a platform is redesigned to take advantage of cost savings in Europe does not mean that those savings translate directly to the North American market. Obviously the Focus is a more upmarket car in Europe. Saving money there may still not save enough under the North American financial scenario and marketing plans to make a case.

The cost to create a separate set of tooling, reconfigure lines, train workers, etc. ALL have to be figured into the equation.

wilko · Apr 17, 2006

Thameth said:
Uhh thats what i said....... But honestly too yes Mazda and Ford are still two different companies that have to compete even though they are together in a way.

But a Focus stealing sales from Mazda or Mazda stealing sales from Ford is still better for Ford than Nissan Stealing sales from Ford.

You'd still rather have Ford and Mazda with the two top compacts on the market than it being Mazda and Honda for example....

Not that I have any beef with Mazda, they make great cars. I dont see the logic in having an affiliate do the dirty work while I rest on my laurels. To me that sort of thinking causes teams to fail (or players to sit on the bench as in Olds case).

If Mazda can make an attractive compact, then why cant Ford do the same? Why is Ford unwilling to take the necessary risks to increase its stake of the compact market?

Johnny_P · Apr 17, 2006

^ very true.... you'd be amazed at what the tooling would cost to redo the focus line....
plus, i dont think the focus is a good enough seller for ford NA to completely re-tool their plant every time a new version of it comes out. They sell way more F-150's, trucks, etc than they do foci... I'm sure they'd rather put money into their money makers than the focus, which they don't get THAT much of a profit from

Thameth · Apr 17, 2006

Johnny_P said:
^ very true.... you'd be amazed at what the tooling would cost to redo the focus line....
plus, i dont think the focus is a good enough seller for ford NA to completely re-tool their plant every time a new version of it comes out. They sell way more F-150's, trucks, etc than they do foci... I'm sure they'd rather put money into their money makers than the focus, which they don't get THAT much of a profit from

Hehe, why do you think the Focus isn't a big enough seller? It was a runaway success in 2000 that has fallen off ever since.....

You don't update you lose sales, you lose respect, you lose reputation. Remember alot of the car market is all about reputation.

So one of the reasons it doesn't sell well might be because its not updated enough to compete with the competition which updates on a regular schedule.

Look at something like the MINI, they could have sat on the current design for a loooooong time and just sucked it dry with its "classic, retro design". But no, they have to compete (especially in europe), so they updated after 4 years. And to think the MINI isn't even a huge volume seller like a Focus, Civic, and so on.

highlander · Apr 17, 2006

focaljet-1 said:
The cost to create a separate set of tooling, reconfigure lines, train workers, etc. ALL have to be figured into the equation.

Just curious - how much does it cost to redo the toolings? any numbers?

wilko · Apr 22, 2006

OK. Does any body have an idea of what the potential 07 redesign looks like?

That test mule has an unconvincing bra on it. It is like it is trying to suggest there is a large bumper under it. And whats with the raised hood line and the sag at those mock-up lights? Hmmm....

... Any ideas?

uujjj · Apr 22, 2006

focaljet-1 said:
Just because a platform is redesigned to take advantage of cost savings in Europe does not mean that those savings translate directly to the North American market. Obviously the Focus is a more upmarket car in Europe. Saving money there may still not save enough under the North American financial scenario and marketing plans to make a case.

But Ford is not upmarket in Europe. The C1 Focus is the cheapest non-Korean compact car you can buy out there.

SilverSVT · Apr 22, 2006

uujjj said:
But Ford is not upmarket in Europe. The C1 Focus is the cheapest non-Korean compact car you can buy out there.

but also remember that a Focus in Europe is roughly what a Mid-size car is in the States when it comes to pricing. If Ford NA could charge 20K or so for a Focus, they would be making money off it also. Instead it gets blown out the door at 12K after incentives, thus leaving no room for any profit or it being sold at a loss. For the most part no car sold by an American auto manufacturer has made "money" for them and the only reason they build them is for CAFE ratings. The reason they dont make money for them is due to a host of different reasons...like manufacturing inefficients, UAW/Legacy costs and so on and so forth.

Thats also part of the why the Focus hasn't gone to the C1 platform..they are still amorziting the costs of the C170 platform and I guess thats gonna take 10 years.

bluebyutoo · Apr 22, 2006

wilko said:
OK. Does any body have an idea of what the potential 07 redesign looks like?

That test mule has an unconvincing bra on it. It is like it is trying to suggest there is a large bumper under it. And whats with the raised hood line and the sag at those mock-up lights? Hmmm....

... Any ideas?

Yup, see the Focus news section where this thread should be.

wilko · Apr 30, 2006

Johnny_P said:
^ very true.... you'd be amazed at what the tooling would cost to redo the focus line....
plus, i dont think the focus is a good enough seller for ford NA to completely re-tool their plant every time a new version of it comes out. They sell way more F-150's, trucks, etc than they do foci... I'm sure they'd rather put money into their money makers than the focus, which they don't get THAT much of a profit from

But that's why the focus is such a sales slug. Ford N.A. choose to take the cheap road and uglify the focus to fit in with the rest of the passenger car line up (the tame looking 500 and the soon to be discontinued Tarus). Bill Ford said somthing about the "year of the car" and then... the fusion. Now they are scrambling to give the entire lineup chrome lips, while canning the zx3 in favor of a 2 door sedan (it will probably be zx3 doors on a zx4). But no hybrid, no diesel, no awd, no 2.3 in the coupe, no zx3, no enthusiasim. No sales???...No kidding!

Do what it takes to give the people what they want.

Johnny_P · May 1, 2006

im just saying that no matter what they're going to sell more trucks and suv's than compact small cars.... f-150 has been the best selling VEHICLE for years in the us... and i'm sure they make a much bigger profit from them than the focus, which is priced around half that of a decently equiped truck...

Putting together the puzzle of the Future of Focus

Thameth

Sharply_Focused

igor2

focaljet-1

wilko

Johnny_P

Thameth

highlander

wilko

uujjj

SilverSVT

bluebyutoo

wilko

Johnny_P

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