cam comparison (searching yielded almost TOO much info)

speedy_zx3 · Apr 26, 2006

cam comparison - FR v Crower (both stg 2's)

I did search, but it provided way too many results. I looked thru a bunch of them over the last couple of months, but didn't find what I was looking for...

I'm looking to do some upgrading over the next month or 2 - namely a new exhaust (with aftermarket flex pipe), an early-2k manifold, and cams.

For the cams (yes, Ult, I'm going to do the buckets, too.

), it's come down to either FR or Crower (both stage 2). This is my everyday car, so I can't sacrifice too much driveability.

I want something that's good for mid-range (read: 3-5k) for just normal "get there" driving, but will also keep pulling until I decide to shift. I've previously read that the FR 2's are damned-near perfect for what I want, but I've also found out that the Crower 2's are right up there.

Can anybody offer information (direct, or second-person, experience definitely a plus) that could help me decide which to get?! The prices are almost exactly the same, so I'm basically just trying to get the best for the money.

Also, adjustable gears and buckets aside, is there absolutely anything else I'll NEED for safe and reliable usage? Obviously stronger springs and retainers are recommended... but will they be required, or are they just more of a really good idea to avoid valve float and possibly breaking a spring? I'm not going to be pushing the car to the limits every moment of every day, but I will be putting my foot to the floor once in a while...

thanks for the help!

speedy_zx3 · May 1, 2006

almost 70 views, and no opinions one way or the other?

osiris_vdc · May 1, 2006

Re: cam comparison - FR v Crower (both stg 2's)

speedy_zx3 said:
I want something that's good for mid-range (read: 3-5k) for just normal "get there" driving, but will also keep pulling until I decide to shift. I've previously read that the FR 2's are damned-near perfect for what I want, but I've also found out that the Crower 2's are right up there.

I went for the FR2s. One thing to note is if you want the best gain possible for 3-5k RPMs you may want to step down one stage. The FR2s are rated up to 6,500 I believe. When I dynoed mine the HP curve pulls all the way to 7,000. I would say if you want some pretty darn good advice on cams to give McNews Automotive (www.mcnewsautomotive.com) a call. Talk to any of the guys there and they can give you some good advice on which cams would best suite your needs.

Z63R · May 1, 2006

speedy_zx3

almost 70 views, and no opinions one way or the other?

Sometimes the best [FJ] happens during the week.

(or maybe they were looking for all that info you found...

)

Less is more when it comes to adding valve timing for performance use in a street car. I applaud your thinking, speedy; you're not fooling yourself about your daily driver, you know the revs you use most and you realize the benefit of enhancing that rev range rather than moving it up the scale.

Smaller is better in this case. To determine if you want stage/level ones or twos, look for any duration figures you might find; go for no more than 4 degrees increase in duration (at .050 tappet/bucket lift) over what stock might be.

Adjustable cam gears will allow you to change what would be lobe separation angles between the intake and exhaust lobe centerlines; narrowing that angle will make the idle a little choppier and pack more into the midrange while widening the lobe separation will smooth the idle, reduce overlap (and idle emissions) and take the power peak slightly higher. Advancing both cams will make torque early; retarding both will make torque later.

Pappy · May 1, 2006

I just recently installed the Crower Stage 2's in my car. I used FC cam gears, which worked well and had the timing set at TDC. I made very good power, I saw according to my dyno sheet that I made my power from about 4500-6500+ it was still climbing when we got to about redline.

Driveability: It's decent. I dail drive and would say you definately need a tune for these cams to at the very minimum raise your idle. Without one, I had issues with the cams leaning everything out, and had my idle going from 6000-7500rpms on the dyno (at idle). It would even die on occasion. With the idle raised they idle great. They definately have a different feel to them. I would say for a daily driver, maybe don't jump to the stage 2, unless you definately plan on a tune.

Power: My power kicked ass. With just other bolt ons (Intake, Header, Exhaust, TB, UDP) I made: 150 WHP / 134 WTQ on a Dyno Dynamics.

c4uldr0n · May 1, 2006

great advice on cam gear timing... from experience, I had FR2's on my car and they are extremely torquey for daily driving. They should have been stock in the FOCI cause they do pull nice

deckzx5 · May 1, 2006

I have FR2's on my car which is a daily driver. They are fine for around town driving. They roughen your idle a little. I will say that they are not what I would call agressive at all. In fact, I wish I had gotten a bigger cam.

cjmartinyzx3 · May 1, 2006

deckzx5 said:
I have FR2's on my car which is a daily driver. They are fine for around town driving. They roughen your idle a little. I will say that they are not what I would call agressive at all. In fact, I wish I had gotten a bigger cam.

i dont know from experiance but i was looking at the data for the FR 2s and they really arent that great.. as in lift and duration. it was better then stock but the crower 2s seemed to be the best bang for the buck.. longer duration and more lift..

i want to get cams some time and i think im going to go with some crower 2s

c4uldr0n · May 1, 2006

they are "less" friendly low end, but better top end than say FRII's.

speedy_zx3 · May 1, 2006

I have a SCT (if you didn't see in my sig) so that'll definitely help out overall, too. not to mention I have some adjustable gears sitting here waiting for they day when they can be used for something...

it looks like the FR2's are the way to go for me, then. they're rated from 2k-7k, according to multiple websites, so that, along with all that's been said here, I think they'd be the best bet. I can't afford to lose low-mid range driveability just to get a few more numbers at the top of the rpm band - since I'm not up there often enough (and gas prices are only going to get higher). I'm not overly worried about idle, for the simple fact that I can get that raised a bit with the chip, and it's not like I'm there for long anyway.

when the time comes, I figured I'd make a weekend out of going to FS to get the cams properly installed and tuned, especially since I have the chip.

thanks for the information, everybody. if there's anything more to add, please feel free to do so, as I will be checking for updates (and because I'm not buying the cams just yet).

osiris_vdc · May 1, 2006

speedy_zx3 said:
when the time comes, I figured I'd make a weekend out of going to FS to get the cams properly installed and tuned, especially since I have the chip.

Maybe they've changed their minds about installing FR cams, but I called FS in about August of last year and was told they didn't feel comfortable installing the FR2s with Essligner cam gears. *shrug*

speedy_zx3 · May 1, 2006

I have a set of AEM, but I'll keep that in mind.

c4uldr0n · May 2, 2006

Ford Racing Cam Gears are Essligner Gears, I got the combo from Mcnew Auto and they were paired quiet nicely. I wouldn't worry.

UltegraSTI · May 2, 2006

hmm, crower has had 4 revisions of what they've called a 'stg 2'. u think they have it right yet? no...but they'll be glad to sell em to ya.

FR2s, i yawn over thought of how many 'crower 2' cars that 'pull like crazy' i've burned on the strip w/my lil FR1s.

enjoy the FR lineup. nice cams that give u what u want, and nothin u dont. go call ray up now and have fun.

thx for the quasi-plug if u will.

-ult

d.bluefocus21 · May 2, 2006

the Crower 2's don't put as much torque as lets say a FR cam, but they pull harder in the 5.5-7k range.....I've had the crower 2 cams, they were nice, even though I still had more torque then a guy in GSR teggy, I still wish I would've sacrificed some top end to have more low end.....and gave myself a more realistic power band....

if you want something that is still streetable and pulls in the higher revs w/some torque, alot of people have been real fond of the FR2's....i'm not knocking the crower 2's, they are good for horsepower, but if you don't have the setup to support em, they tend to be a lil pointless.......I remember before I put in my flywheel and the 4.06 final drive I wasn't too fond of em, I had to compensate for my loss of low end.....

also, I don't think you need to upgrade valvesprings/retainers or grind the head out w/Fr2's do you? if not, they seem the way to go : )

do what Ult. says and give Ray a call, he'll help you out w/whats best

sc0tty8 · May 2, 2006

IMO, if your going with the 00 mani, I would go with a ford racing #2 or the cran 0012's, after 5300rpm, your power band isn't going to be all too stellar...

I have the crane 0012's and I like them...

harDKore/S2 · May 2, 2006

I went with Kent Gears and Kent Cams, i'll post up some before and after dyno results. I'm pretty happy dealing with focussport. Maybe their prices are a little higher but the support you get from them is top notch.

FSWerksVP · May 2, 2006

osiris_vdc said:
Maybe they've changed their minds about installing FR cams, but I called FS in about August of last year and was told they didn't feel comfortable installing the FR2s with Essligner cam gears. *shrug*

That sounds really odd. We didn't feel comfortable? :lol: I'm pretty sure we didn't say that.

We will usually turn down labor, such as cam installs, because we simply don't have enough time to do R&D as it is. There are exceptions, but that is usually the case.

osiris_vdc · May 2, 2006

FocusSportVP said:
That sounds really odd. We didn't feel comfortable? :lol: I'm pretty sure we didn't say that.

We will usually turn down labor, such as cam installs, because we simply don't have enough time to do R&D as it is. There are exceptions, but that is usually the case.

So you don't do cam installs right?

JgGravy · May 2, 2006

If they are busy, i'm sure if they had nothing to do for the day they would. But don't you think a busines like FS would be a little busy? :thumbup:

cam comparison (searching yielded almost TOO much info)

speedy_zx3

speedy_zx3

osiris_vdc

Z63R

Pappy

c4uldr0n

deckzx5

cjmartinyzx3

c4uldr0n

speedy_zx3

osiris_vdc

speedy_zx3

c4uldr0n

UltegraSTI

d.bluefocus21

sc0tty8

harDKore/S2

FSWerksVP

osiris_vdc

JgGravy

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