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Maxximtl

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The friggen IIHS seems to want us all to be driving 4,000 pound land yachts. They just tested a bunch of B-segment cars and had this to say about them...

"A good-scoring small and lightweight car is not nearly as good as a good-scoring midsize car — that’s just the law of physics,” the insurance institute’s president, Adrian Lund, said. “If you’re really shopping for safety, then this probably isn’t your best choice."
The Versa did the best out of the crop, but statements like this really irk me. It scares people away from making environmentally sound car buying decisions. Small cars will never make a comeback if the safety conscious public thinks they are death traps.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/automobiles/19auto.html?ref=business
 
I don't see where he is wrong in stating that...it is physics yah know? if I crash into you in a Expedition into your Versa, the Versa is gonna be hurting a lot more then say a Maxima.
 
All true.

Better we sacrifice our personal safety for the "environmental soundness" of a small car.

The planet, after all, is more important than US...

And since we have so much evidence gathered over the thousands of years we've been on this planet recording trend data with our sophisticated technology, we know for a fact that if we don't all drive micro cars that get eleventy billion mpg, we're all gonna die of global warming.

Oh wait.. shiat.
 
What it comes down to is that until we get all the huge SUVs off the roads it won't be as safe to drive a smaller car.

But since getting all the huge SUVs off the road is just about as likely as one group buying all of GM's stock (ok a bit extreme) I don't think it is going to happen.
 
Life is full of trade-offs. A smaller car is going to be less safe in many situations. The question is if that's a trade-off you are willing to make. Even if you get rid of all the SUVs, how well is a b-segment car going to handle running off the road into a wall or pole, etc...

Don't get mad at someone for stating the obvious.
 
What all of these Crash Tests fail to consider is Vehicle Handling.
I guess it's because the "Average" American driver is an Inattentive, Lazy, IJAC Moron.
If people actually learned to DRIVE to get their licenses, the smaller cars' Obvious Advantage would be an Increase in Accident Avoidance.
Alas, since Most people can't USE the smaller car's Greater Maneuverability, that doesn't get counted into the rankings.
If the IIHS Really wanted to Help, they'd spend half of the money that they spend on their crash rankings on Driver Education/Training.
The Mfr's are already crash-testing the cars, so I'm not pissing on the usefulness of crash testing, just the IIHS logic/attitudes in their "Ranking/Rating".
:)
 
SilverSVT said:
I don't see where he is wrong in stating that...it is physics yah know? if I crash into you in a Expedition into your Versa, the Versa is gonna be hurting a lot more then say a Maxima.
Mix this in with the fact that the majority of the American car buying demographic are concerned strictly about their status being tarnished to drive anything but a gargantuan monster SUV and their utter lack of concern for the environment and gas prices and we have a winner :thumbdown I hate to say it but the US will never be like England and the rest of Europe :(

-Brian
 
I will NOT be deterred by these findings, and I will not sell my B-segment car to buy a Tahoe because it's bigger. [sarcasm]Let's all just start buying surplus tanks or semi trucks, then we'll all be safe, right?[/sarcasm]

Of all of the cars on the raod today, how many have side airbags; 5%? Not new cars, but all cars?

I'd love to see them retest some of the existing cars on the road. The early '90s Civic, the mid 1990s Taurus, Camrys, and F-150. Let's see how the cars we are driving that we bought 10 years ago are comparing to the new small cars of today. Would a 1994 Chevy S-10 fair worse than an xB? Could it be possible that a 1995 Passat would have worse scores than a Fit?

It'd be interesting to me.

Let's be sure to objectively look at these scores. Five years ago, would these vehicles have been held to a lower standard? I honestly don't know. I assume the rating scale has done nothing but improve with time making it harder for smaller cars to achieve better ratings. Then again I could be wrong.
 
A lot of people buy huge SUVs because its subsidized. Why did we have a red 4x4 loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition? Why did we drive it more than other "cars"? Cuz we got free gas, and "work vehicles" get tax writeoffs. Same reason buddy got a similar black Expedition in place of his Acura Legend. Did you know that a 12MPG SRT-10 Ram does NOT pay gas guzzler tax while a 20mpg SRT-10 Viper does? Same engine, but the automatic transmission, heavier weight, and poorer aerodynamics of the truck chop the fuel economy of the gas guzzler in half for an UEBER gas guzzler, but you don't pay GG tax. :what:

I don't believe that small or "normal" size cars are less safe in single vehicle accidents. A 5000 pound vehicle into a brick wall may have more crumple area, but its still 5000 pounds of metal around you, and thats harder to avoid the accident in in the first place. Drop an elephant from 10 feet, and drop a cat from 10 feet, and see which one suffers more damage. Now put that cat and the elephant into a head-on COLLISION with one another, and yeah, that cat is gunna be a PANCAKE! Thats the problem... the compatability.... the SUVs are too big, not the other cars too small.

The government should not be telling us what kind of cars we can or cannot drive, but the laws should at least provide a slight incentive or at the very least set a level playing field. A passenger vehicle, not registered w/ a commercial title, is a passenger vehicle like any other, regardless of whether it weighs 7000lbs+. It shouldn't be exempt from any of the laws we have in place for other passenger vehicles, and furthermore they need to close the loophole of what qualifies as a commercial vehicle, as my coworker at work really doesn't need a huge F-350 for doing home IT support nor another buddies doctor parents need an Excursion for their practice, when its really jsut a personal vehicle.

Put a gas guzzler tax on the lowest 5% fuel economy vehicles in the US, and give that gas guzzler tax to the highest 5% fuel economy vehicles. It should NOT matter if thats a hybrid Ford Explorer (unlikely anyway) or a cheap 40mpg Toyota Yaris. All that should matter is MPG and perhaps emissions if you want to factor that in. :thumbup:
 
Ducman is right.


also, um, the SRT10 comes with an auto? I thought those had the 6 speed... i know the first ones did.... *shrug*
 
This is the reason I drive a 4500lb car. I'll sacrifice gas-mileage for safety. I've already been in one accident that would have totaled a small car.

If the enviromentalists want to come after me, fine. I'll grab them by their scrawny necks and shove their face in front of a trash truck's exhaust pipe. Or show them the layer of black dust and crap that accumulates on my kitchen counter from living 100 yards from the freeway and 1/4 mile from the airport. There's much bigger fish to fry than the auto manufacturers.
 
That trash truck is big and heavy because it has to be. Its gotta securely hold and compact all that trash, and be durable enough to work all day and dump it. Its an industrial vehicle. Same reason 16 wheelers have 16 wheels.

Airplanes are made as efficient as they can be, and for the most part those things are packed to capacity for every single flight (especially nowadays).

That freeway is probably full of 45000lb cars driving around beWbies... :p I don't think a bunch of ULEVII (sub)compacts are going to be leaving a lot of black dust on your counter. Two 2500lbs cars smacking into each other is surely less traumatic than two 4500lb tipsy SUVs trying to avoid an accident.
 
hotrodkris said:
This is the reason I drive a 4500lb car. I'll sacrifice gas-mileage for safety. I've already been in one accident that would have totaled a small car.

If the enviromentalists want to come after me, fine. I'll grab them by their scrawny necks and shove their face in front of a trash truck's exhaust pipe. Or show them the layer of black dust and crap that accumulates on my kitchen counter from living 100 yards from the freeway and 1/4 mile from the airport. There's much bigger fish to fry than the auto manufacturers.

You're neither the first, nor the last (i'm sure) female I've heard make this comment.

"The rest of the population be damned, I'm gonna drive me a tank!"

"Me Amoeba, Me Absorb"
 
I have driven many small cars in my time. One of my favorite personally owned cars was a '78 Fiesta. But, I also know when I'm driving a smaller car, that certain laws of physics just cannot be changed. Deal with it. Does this mean we shouldn't drive smaller cars? NO. Just like rollovers don't prevent us from driving high-center-of-gravity vehicles. How about riding a motorcycle? It's a calculated risk that most come out on the good side of. Just know that there is a chance you will be one of the unfortunate ones as well.
 
There's so many factors, types of vehicles, types of collisions, types of drivers, environmental factors, etc. that's it's nearly impossible to judge what they safest vehicle is going to be. Humans are also irrational a lot of times too. Look at how many still ignore the facts and don't want to put a seat belt on for fear of admitting their own mortality or something.

"It's a smaller car so it's more maneuverable."
"It's a big SUV so there's more mass and is better in a collision with another car."
"Crashing into a solid or deformable barrier shows it's safe."
"Statistically you're safer driving xx vehicle."

Technically all of those could be right under certain circumstances. Then again you have to evaluate everything together and not get stuck on one part of the safety equation.

There are a lot of examples of things that might not seem to make much sense when viewed from one side. First lets take GM's previous minivan design. In the IIHS and Euro NCAP testing they have been one of the worst performing vehicles on the market. But according to actual collision loss data if you go back they are statistically one of the safest vehicles on the road.

Many smaller and mid-size cars have performed better in barrier testing where the mass of a truck or SUV comes into place against them, but "compatibility" testing between vehicle classes isn't that favorable. Since I doubt many have seen a ton of crash test videos, check out the following link:
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/databa...4430&existreport=Y&r_tstno=4430&existvideo=Y&v_tstno=4430&database=v&tstno=4430

It shows government testing videos of a Lincoln Navigator and a Dodge Neon in a head-on impact with both vehicles going only 30 mph each (think about how crash forces increase exponentially the faster you go next time you're cruising along on the highway). Video's number 2, 3, and 7 are good starters to get an idea how the impact affects both vehicles.

And those big, safe, heavy vehicles have their own liabilities. There are always bigger vehicles on the road. Take this case where full size truck went head-first into a semi at highway speeds (go to "Components" : "Pictures (Images)"). There's tons of other cases of vehicles going into light poles, trees, etc. and in most cases it doesn't matter what you're driving if the speed is high enough.

In the end it seems best to be objective and not try and pick-and-choose safety items but look at the big picture. Take a young inexperienced driver and put every one of them in the seat of the statistically safe minivan and you'd probably see those statistics change. Life is a risk and I try to choose my choices wisely, but I also like driving certain types of cars. Maybe I'd be safer in something else, then again, maybe not.
 
All true.

Better we sacrifice our personal safety for the "environmental soundness" of a small car.

The planet, after all, is more important than US...
This is the reason I drive a 4500lb car. I'll sacrifice gas-mileage for safety. I've already been in one accident that would have totaled a small car.

If the enviromentalists want to come after me, fine. I'll grab them by their scrawny necks and shove their face in front of a trash truck's exhaust pipe. Or show them the layer of black dust and crap that accumulates on my kitchen counter from living 100 yards from the freeway and 1/4 mile from the airport. There's much bigger fish to fry than the auto manufacturers.
The pure, unashamed selfishness of (so many) Americans is driving me absolutely mad. We all share this same planet, and the same climate. If you morons would get your heads out of your asses and realize that no, your life is NOT worth more than somebody else's, and that the big car safety myth is just leading to the further escallation of vehicle size, we'd all be able to live in a better world.

You're right, we don't KNOW if our habits are leading to climate change. But we only have one planet, and by the time we know for sure it will be too late. Are you going to bet the future of your children that you're right?

Being cautious costs nothing. Being a selfish arrogant asshat could potentially cost EVERYTHING.
 
If the person in the SUV wasn't talking on their cell phone, eating, watching their 6 kids all at the same time while doing 80mph tailgating everyone, you wouldn't worry about them hitting you. Unfortunately, 99% of them are driven that way.
 
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