I need to know the rate (#/") of the front sway bar.
I did a lot of searsh and couldn't find it.
Thanks.
I did a lot of searsh and couldn't find it.
Thanks.
FSB Question
Reza
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
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[Obie Wan Kenobie] You don't need to know the FSB rate. [/end Obie Wan Kenobie]
Stop changing your car. Stop wanting to change your car. Learn to drive your car...by all accounts you have one of the most well-prepared cars on [FJ].
Autocross success is all about being a faster driver, not having a faster car--99% of the time a faster driver in a 'slower' car will outright beat a slower driver in a 'faster' car. If you keep changing your car every 15 minutes you will never know what to attribute success or failure to--because you are not allowing yourself as the driver to adapt to the changes.
Autocrossing is very much like golf--just because you go out and buy a $2000 set of unobtainium clubs, doesnt make you a good, or even a better golfer than your were when you had the $200 set from Walmart. It takes hundreds of rounds of practicing the fundamentals, and executing them correctly time after time (and you can do that all just fine with the $200 clubs). Same thing with autocrossing.
Stop changing your car. Stop wanting to change your car. Learn to drive your car...by all accounts you have one of the most well-prepared cars on [FJ].
Autocross success is all about being a faster driver, not having a faster car--99% of the time a faster driver in a 'slower' car will outright beat a slower driver in a 'faster' car. If you keep changing your car every 15 minutes you will never know what to attribute success or failure to--because you are not allowing yourself as the driver to adapt to the changes.
Autocrossing is very much like golf--just because you go out and buy a $2000 set of unobtainium clubs, doesnt make you a good, or even a better golfer than your were when you had the $200 set from Walmart. It takes hundreds of rounds of practicing the fundamentals, and executing them correctly time after time (and you can do that all just fine with the $200 clubs). Same thing with autocrossing.
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It has an effective rate--and I could care less what it is. (I'm a mortgage loan officer, and the only rate I know is 30 year fixed-conforming). The point is, stop trying to engineer a better mousetrap, er um Focus. It's been done. As noted above, the horse is dead.
Take the car--you have a good setup. Drive it. Drive it. Drive it. Eat. Sleep. Drive. Drive. Drive. Learn. Come back in a year...and tell us what you learned.
My Focus was a non-moonroof, but otherwise loaded ZTS...it was 'heavy'. I ran on 205/50-15 RT215s on skinny 15x6.5" wheels...and ran middle 50's in the front and mid 30's in the back for pressures. I had Konis up front set to about 1/2 stiff. I had Spax adjustables in back set just up over full soft. I had about -2.6* of camber in the front with SPC 'plates', and over -2* in the rear--it was whatever the natural camber was from the H&R Race springs. I had a 24mm 3-way bar in back and used the middle (24mm) setting. I had a stock bar up front with poly bushings. It was chipped and had a Iceman CAI, a Steeds STS and a 2.25' catback. This was a mild STS car at best...wider wheels and full poly bushings, DAs, coilovers, 'real' camber plates etc. never made it on the car...why?--a lot of money would have yielded a little in return...and it was clear that the Focus was a 'best of the rest in STS' car at best. Not because of springs, not because of swaybars, not because of anything other than it was almost 2800 pounds in a class with 2000 pound cars.
Still, that car was the fastest 'street tire' car at Jetfest1...and 4th overall. It finished as the highest placing non SpecCivic in STS in my region in 2005--and we have arguably the best STS region in the Nation. It did not suffer from any undue terminal understeer...but I also have been autocrossing since 1993...12 years at the time. That is alot of experience. The only thing you need rignt now is experience...and that is one thing that you can not buy.
Take the car--you have a good setup. Drive it. Drive it. Drive it. Eat. Sleep. Drive. Drive. Drive. Learn. Come back in a year...and tell us what you learned.
My Focus was a non-moonroof, but otherwise loaded ZTS...it was 'heavy'. I ran on 205/50-15 RT215s on skinny 15x6.5" wheels...and ran middle 50's in the front and mid 30's in the back for pressures. I had Konis up front set to about 1/2 stiff. I had Spax adjustables in back set just up over full soft. I had about -2.6* of camber in the front with SPC 'plates', and over -2* in the rear--it was whatever the natural camber was from the H&R Race springs. I had a 24mm 3-way bar in back and used the middle (24mm) setting. I had a stock bar up front with poly bushings. It was chipped and had a Iceman CAI, a Steeds STS and a 2.25' catback. This was a mild STS car at best...wider wheels and full poly bushings, DAs, coilovers, 'real' camber plates etc. never made it on the car...why?--a lot of money would have yielded a little in return...and it was clear that the Focus was a 'best of the rest in STS' car at best. Not because of springs, not because of swaybars, not because of anything other than it was almost 2800 pounds in a class with 2000 pound cars.
Still, that car was the fastest 'street tire' car at Jetfest1...and 4th overall. It finished as the highest placing non SpecCivic in STS in my region in 2005--and we have arguably the best STS region in the Nation. It did not suffer from any undue terminal understeer...but I also have been autocrossing since 1993...12 years at the time. That is alot of experience. The only thing you need rignt now is experience...and that is one thing that you can not buy.
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qftthefrush said:^^
![Image]()
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As I said before I am not going to change the FSB and Just wanted to know the Rate.
And just stop telling me how much you have Experience and I don't and I should practice more. some people learn faster than other. I am already faster than many people in our region with 15 years of experience and slower than many others.
As I said before I have already let a few National Champs to Drive my car and Beat every single of them Except one.(Ken Motonishi National Champ in STS in 2005 and I think he is going to be in DSP this year I was behind him by 0.3 Sec in a 60 sec course he ). Yeah I know its my car and I know it better than them. We have DATA Log the both runs with GPS and Accelerometer If you really want let me know and I find a way to post them up here.
I like to be a better Driver yes and I know I have to practice more to become better. But I really like to Modify my car and Change my setup and learn how everything works. I really enjoy that as a hobby. thats why I try different tires an rim suspension and sway bars. I don't do it As much for being faster but just to know how everything works this is my hobby.
And just stop telling me how much you have Experience and I don't and I should practice more. some people learn faster than other. I am already faster than many people in our region with 15 years of experience and slower than many others.
As I said before I have already let a few National Champs to Drive my car and Beat every single of them Except one.(Ken Motonishi National Champ in STS in 2005 and I think he is going to be in DSP this year I was behind him by 0.3 Sec in a 60 sec course he ). Yeah I know its my car and I know it better than them. We have DATA Log the both runs with GPS and Accelerometer If you really want let me know and I find a way to post them up here.
I like to be a better Driver yes and I know I have to practice more to become better. But I really like to Modify my car and Change my setup and learn how everything works. I really enjoy that as a hobby. thats why I try different tires an rim suspension and sway bars. I don't do it As much for being faster but just to know how everything works this is my hobby.
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3,381 Posts
...then don't write (in the other post) that you are sick and tired of the Focus and how crappy you think it is and that you want a BMW because it'll be so much better. Its great that you like to really modify your car...but you can not justifiabally attribute the results of your changes in 6 or 12 or even 20 runs...unless you have the experience (read: consistancy) to back it up.
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I don't do changes every week.
I had the coilovers +24mm RSB for 2 years before I change the rear springs and Shocks and I am going to use this setup for at least 6 months then decide If I want to go back or not. I change the front swaybar Once to 18mm kept it for 6 months Didnt like it then switch back.
I like to do stuff to my car thats why I am in STX otherwise I would have been in SK1. (stock with street tires).
Still I am not going to change the FSB. I just wanted to know the rate.
I am writting a Excel sheet write now for my suspension set up that why I needed it.
Thanks anyways.
I had the coilovers +24mm RSB for 2 years before I change the rear springs and Shocks and I am going to use this setup for at least 6 months then decide If I want to go back or not. I change the front swaybar Once to 18mm kept it for 6 months Didnt like it then switch back.
I like to do stuff to my car thats why I am in STX otherwise I would have been in SK1. (stock with street tires).
Still I am not going to change the FSB. I just wanted to know the rate.
I am writting a Excel sheet write now for my suspension set up that why I needed it.
Thanks anyways.
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527 Posts
Buy a couple of vehicle dynamics books. I'd suggest Race Car Vehicle Dynamics By Milliken to get all the equations and work it out or Tune To win by Carroll Smith for slightly fewer number and equations. The actual rate of the swaybar in #/deg is a simple calaculation but finding the bars contribution to the suspension as a system is slightly more complicated.
I've always wanted to do this. Get some data and see where I'm losing time and where I can gain time. And just get my feet wet with some auto related data analysis.focus_wrc said:
At the very least I would like a split time or 2. F1 guys get it, so why can't I?
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Yeah I think its the best thing you can get. you can do the changes and see how much dose it effect your time in each sector. you can try different kind of lines and see which one is faster.
http://www.race-technology.com/dl1_10_1526.html
![Image]()
http://www.pbase.com/sjmarcy/image/81945365/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/sjmarcy/image/81947793/original.jpg
http://www.race-technology.com/dl1_10_1526.html
http://www.pbase.com/sjmarcy/image/81945365/original.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/sjmarcy/image/81947793/original.jpg
As usual, well said Murph.ZXmurph said:
Guys, I'm pretty sure that it is abundantly clear to Reza what everyone thinks he should be doing at this point. It has been beaten to death. At this point I think it's time to let it go and let Reza do with his car what he wants.
Pretty much when he asks his questions either help or don't but he probably doesn't need to be given the same message another 100 times.
Reza, I'm sorry that I don't have the answer to your current question but good luck getting where you want to be with the car.
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