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Discussion starter · #23 ·
ZX3TUNING said:
what works best in an AutoX/road course setup is highly dependant on the car, drive train layout and speeds at which the car will reach.

for EG:
Any Porsche we build for track purposes, Solo1 or any type of racing where high speed corners in higher gears are encountered, we run plate-type LSDs. on say an AutoX or street driven Porsche we'll suggest or run a ATB(Torsen/Quaife).

again, depending on the driving you are doing one dif will always be limited in a certain area.
if you look at a lot of the drift guys, cornering speeds are not that high but most of them use a plate-type dif to get lockup so they can break both wheels away equally. some may even run Spools but that's beside the point.

with plate type difs you can alter the dif-action under things like accel, coast and i think decel(i'm not the guy who handles dif setup here) again to suit the type of driving you are doing.

in the focus world, simply because there are no serious plate-type difs on the market as an option, everyone just defaults between the quaife and the torsen. imho, neither is better nor worse than the other. like everything, people try ONE thing and then preach that it's the "bee's Knee's". the people who have driven both in a high performance situation may not but usually can tell there is little difference between the 2 all testing being equal which is why a lot of people opt for the "cheaper price or lifetime warranty" angle.

having built and driven Focus' with both quaifes and torsens, i really don't see a difference in how they work between the 2, just in how they allow cars to power out of corners vs a stock diff. i'll install which ever the customer wants but wont suggest one over the other... i opt-out for the "cheaper price, lifetime warranty" angle, and let the customer choose! :)
i know some places push one over the other but usually that's simply a profit margin reason or they don't carry the other and want you to buy a LSD from THEM! ;) :p


AWESOME post. thank you.


polarisman14 said:
So if you do have a torsen or quaife and you're still getting one wheel to break free constantly, you'd be best suited to invest in some sticky tires. That way, the torque required to break the tire free would be greater, and hopefully greater than the torque required for the differential to operate differently than an open diff. Correct?
yeah basically. More torque capacity isnt really 100% of the technical answer but you get the jist of it.

At an estimated 160wtq, in first gear my torsen works great in straight lines most of the time. You can hear the engine reach peak torque around 5000, sit there while the diff catches up and the car goes faster, and then off I go. But when I have my summer tires on and its really cold (aka i get more power/torque and my tires are rock hard) I get some one tire fire, usually the passenger side. So sticky tires would certainly help.
 
illinipo said:
You can hear the engine reach peak torque around 5000, sit there while the diff catches up and the car goes faster, and then off I go.
That's.... really odd. Sounds broken.

Sounds like some sort of engine or clutch issue, because I've never had one do anything like that.

It is a differential, not a CVT. It can't mechanically decouple BOTH drive axles from the engine at the same time. The power has to go somewhere, and if both wheels have grip, it will result in smooth acceleration. If they don't have grip, engine RPM will increase as one or more of them begins to spin.
 
Yeah that's not a diff that's your clutch not fully engaging. You've got a hydraulic system issue somewhere IMO. And yes Mitch, Kaaz was the company I was thinking of. Don't know what happened to that, unfortunately.
 
Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
it happens in 1st gear only so it is NOT the clutch. Ive been over this with focussport a few times.

It also only happens when i have more power/torque due to cold weather. I happen to have JUST the right amount of torque to break one wheel loose.

it is the differential dynamically changing the overall gear ratio. If you take a look at an exploded diagram of a torsen it will make sense.

its wheelspin... without the spin.
 
i have the torsen in my car, and just to clarify for some people having a ATB does not get you outta snowy conditions any better then a open diff :p

but for DD you really wont know its there until you hit the go pedal, then hang on. I LOVE IT, one of my favorite mods for the car. hit the pedal and hang on cuz she is going where i point her :D

really transforms the car.
 
im sure the diff can handle a fair amount of shock load over a stock diff :lol: i smoked mine *hence the torsen* and it ate the gears...
 
I beg to differ. I can feel the difference in the snow, but I have snow tires too, so I never feel like I have NO traction. As long as either tire has SOME traction, the differential will bias some power to the other side. I've NEVER gotten stuck since I put in the Quaife and put on real snow tires on dedicated rims in the winter. An ATB style diff doesn't work when one side has NO traction, such as one wheel being off the ground. That is when the clutch-style makes more sense.

I really wish that OS Giken made a diff for the MTX75 after reading the article in Grassroots Motorsports.
 
ok i guess we should add the snow tires, i currently dont have snow tires, so that basically goes with the posts earlier about sticky tires, without snow tires in these conditions it is possible that there is not enough torgue to bias to the other tire.
 
Yeah, that's it. In the article (I think it's the issue on newstands now) Grassroots Motorsports had an S2000 that came standard with a Torsen diff. They ran that car and timed it in a solo style course, then switched diffs with a Kaaz clutch-type, and the OS Giken clutch type. The best times and feel were with the OS Giken. It hooked better than the Torsen, but wasn't as on/off feeling as the Kaaz due to more plates, more gradual engagement.
 
My car w/ snow tires will get stuck.

My car w/ all seasons and a Torsen will not.

It works ;)

Having owned both a car w/ Quaife and one w/ a Torsen, both w/ all seasons and sticky tires, I will say this.

The Quaife 'pushes' more through the corner, whereas the Torsen likes to pull a bit more.

Why? Don't know, that's just how they feel. :D

If I had to choose?

It would come down to price.

- Drew
 
funny how this has turned into a stuck/no-stuck in snow debate now.
for the record, any FWD without a LSD, if you slightly drag or tap the brakes while a wheel is spinning, the other wheel, that has grip, will start to get more power and you can put out of a lot of stuff you normally couldn't. i've done this with a Quaifed car and besides a little extra heat generated by the brakes it seemed to function the same as with an open dif.... just with far more grip after tapping the brakes!
 
ZX3TUNING said:
funny how this has turned into a stuck/no-stuck in snow debate now.
for the record, any FWD without a LSD, if you slightly drag or tap the brakes while a wheel is spinning, the other wheel, that has grip, will start to get more power and you can put out of a lot of stuff you normally couldn't. i've done this with a Quaifed car and besides a little extra heat generated by the brakes it seemed to function the same as with an open dif.... just with far more grip after tapping the brakes!

hey i never thought of that :thumbup: makes total sense tho.

but i have some skinny all season (need to be replaced after this year) and i really dont have to much problem... just when the snow is so bad i "lay frame" :lol:

then that gets more difficult, but next year im looking at getting some snow tires. im sure ill be able to get through about anything then
 
ZX3TUNING said:
funny how this has turned into a stuck/no-stuck in snow debate now.
for the record, any FWD without a LSD, if you slightly drag or tap the brakes while a wheel is spinning, the other wheel, that has grip, will start to get more power and you can put out of a lot of stuff you normally couldn't. i've done this with a Quaifed car and besides a little extra heat generated by the brakes it seemed to function the same as with an open dif.... just with far more grip after tapping the brakes!
Yes, that's easily the only thing most people will never try when trying to get out.

:lol:

It was brought up, so I chimed in on the snow subject.

I have also had both my ATB diff. cars in the snow, the Quaife handled that much better than my Torsen car.

Both on snows. Hell, I had near 1/32 tread depth Azenis on my Quaife car and it did a lot better than it should have :lol:

;)

- Drew
 
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