Shelby sues Factory Five Racing and an enthusiast site
focaljet-1
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4,697 Posts
Major corporations suing over trademarks of vehicles they still sell... ok. They DO need to protect their copyrights, or stand to loose them.
Suing a company that has built a replica car for 14 years... a replica of a car that you:
a) never designed
b) use none of the copyrights for
is BS.
Unless 'ol CS is planning a revival of the Cobra or Daytona, this is bull****.
and a fansite?!?
Suing a company that has built a replica car for 14 years... a replica of a car that you:
a) never designed
b) use none of the copyrights for
is BS.
Unless 'ol CS is planning a revival of the Cobra or Daytona, this is bull****.
and a fansite?!?
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481 Posts
He is... Shelby is offering CSX9000 cars now which are Coupes.CheckMyVitals said:
See, that's Carroll's gig. It's all okay until he decides to do it himself. In the 70s he said Cobras were junk, and turned his back on them for almost two decades. Then when he saw how well the replica biz was doing, the dollar signs flashed and it's time to sic the lawyers on everyone. He does this every time. That why he sued SAAC after 30 years of supporting them - because he was starting his own club. Now he's suing FFR over the Coupe -because he wants to make his own.
Same ole Carroll, never changes.
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6,034 Posts
I don't care if he's regarded as one of the greatest enthusiasts/tuners of all time... this guy is a dick. I think Ford should pull all of the Shelby stuff off the shelf and never use his name again on anything, that's what I'd do at least. I mean, all they're using his name for anymore is the name... and they could come up with a new performance name pretty easily.
That and he's losing a lot of respect in the automotive world for this bs....
That and he's losing a lot of respect in the automotive world for this bs....
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Geez, didn't you guys know that Shelby invented the automobile and should therefore own all rights to anything with four wheels in perpetuity?
Let's see, AC designed the original Cobra and Ford built the engine and Pete Brock designed the Daytona coupe prototype which resulted in six Daytona coupes produced of which (according to Brock) none were even identical.
I lost repsect for Shelby YEARS ago.
Let's see, AC designed the original Cobra and Ford built the engine and Pete Brock designed the Daytona coupe prototype which resulted in six Daytona coupes produced of which (according to Brock) none were even identical.
I lost repsect for Shelby YEARS ago.
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A lot of 'great enthusiasts/tuners' are complete douchebags. Only a few 'good ones' stand out in my mind (Jon K, Foose, Troy Trepanier). Lots and lots and lots of ego in this industry.Johnny_P said:
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I didn't read the whole article, I was reffering to the original Cobra.shlbygt said:
That was an A.C. design, even the chassis plates showed the A.C. manufactured in England.
Pete Brock worked for Shelby and designed the Daytona coupe, theres no arguing that but it's a 40 year old car with hand built bodywork and no two coupes were the same.
Shelby is just a little too greedy if you ask me.
Superformance has a license from Shelby to build and sell their Cobra and Daytona Coupe. If Shelby does not enforce his trademarks then Superformance has the right to sue Shelby for not protecting the licensee rights of Superformance.Power Surge said:
Shelby sued SAAC because Ken Eber is an arrogant idiot who did not fullfill contractual obligations as per his licesning agreement with Shelby. Part of the SAAC settlement required Eber to step down as a director.
SVTOA kicked Eber to the curb after less than a year of him in charge because he is did nothing for the club but take money from members. Now the New Jersey Motorsports Park is sueing Eber and SAAC because of a dine and dash that was known as the SAAC 33 convention.
http://www.thedailyjournal.com/article/20081216/NEWS01/812160306/1002/rs
If you look at the side bar on the article note that it states "Shelby's" bill. Which one could infer that Carroll Shelby owes money to NJMP and not Eber. Would you want your name to be associated with a club that walks out on a $115,000 bill.
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I lost what little respect I had for Shelby when he let dollar bills override common sense and started endorsing ZMax snakeoil commercials.
Sure he was a legend in his day but the Cobra AFAIC was his last achievement. Everything else done under his name has been just that, stuff done under his name.....just like all the Shelby crap that Ford is pushing now and the current Shelby cars that are made under his name.
Sure he was a legend in his day but the Cobra AFAIC was his last achievement. Everything else done under his name has been just that, stuff done under his name.....just like all the Shelby crap that Ford is pushing now and the current Shelby cars that are made under his name.
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If i recall correctly Shelby and his crew had everything to do with the new Cobras. They took a couple of cars and worked on the designs for the add on stuff, ect.
All the Mustangs in the 70's were sent to the Shelby shop to be "worked up" and then sent to dealers from there.
All the Mustangs in the 70's were sent to the Shelby shop to be "worked up" and then sent to dealers from there.
carroll shelby crossed a sacred line here. i understand if someone is making replicas and calling them cobras and making the "trade dress" identical but thats not what's going on here at all and then tho sue and entusiust site is assanine IMO.
mr. shelby you have lost my respect and i now say this you sir are a dick
mr. shelby you have lost my respect and i now say this you sir are a dick
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shlbygt said:
My issue is with the way Shelby never cared about all the Cobra replicas until he figured out how much money he was losing to people that recognised the market long before he did.
The replicas have been around for a lot longer than he's been suing people about them.
I also don't agree with his habit of signing off on new production and replica Shelby Mustangs and such since they were not and never will be "real" cars.
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blueovaldave said:
Shelby Mustangs were sold by Ford dealers that held a Shelby franchise, they were never sold as Ford production vehicles.
We were a Shelby dealership back in the original Cobra and Mustang days of the '60's.
I've actually got the original parts catalogs for the 289 and 427 Cobras that I rescued from the trash bin a few years ago.
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The continuation series is a bit of a stretch.
That is the market he is chasing now. He figures he can bring in a ton more money if he kills off the competition until his company finishes with the continuation series of the vins he has left to use.
That is the market he is chasing now. He figures he can bring in a ton more money if he kills off the competition until his company finishes with the continuation series of the vins he has left to use.
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Agreed- and they have most likely made tons more in terms of volume- Im so tired of Shelby sueing everyone. Total greedazbobbybooshay_10 said:
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Ford's gone after some pretty petty causes. For example, when I had my powerstroke years ago, I belonged to an enthusiast site called FordDiesel.com. Ford went after them and they had to change the name to "TheDieselStop.com". That's pretty lame in my book.Lifeguardjoe said:
Ford won't dump Shelby, they are heavily involved with them, and the name is legendary. There are a zillion more people who don't know "the truth" about Carroll like the core enthusiasts do, and that's what Ford counts on.Johnny_P said:
I wouldn't quite say AC "designed" the Cobra. AC had a neat little car, of which they lost their engine contract. Carroll was looking for a small british handler to stuff an American V8 into (let's not forget he went to GM before Ford and was turned down). SHELBY created and built the first Cobras. AC supplied the roller and Shelby built the car. The big block cars were designed by Ford. It was actually the first car that Ford had ever used computers to design. Ford and Shelby contracted AC to build the big block cars to these new specs.FORDSVTPARTS said:
As for the coupes, yes, Peter designed the coupes, however he was working for Shelby so technically they are Shelby's design. Suing over the coupe shape from a legal standpoint sounds fine to most, however the only REASON for the lawsuit NOW, is that Carroll is selling his own Coupes. He hasn't cared in 40 years. Now he does, because of his pockets.
Spoken like a true TS enthusiastshlbygt said:
. Superformance is licensed to use the Cobra emblem on their cars and call them Cobras. That's about it. The only reason why, is they opened their wallet to the old man. Carroll has gone after SPF in the past as well. And he does not endorse the Brock Coupe, just the roadsters. The Brock Coupe (as it's called) may LOOK like an original coupe, but the Peter redesigned the shape of the car for SPF so this version is a bit different from the originals. Oh, and if you ever see any recent interviews with Carroll, he usually doesn't even mention Peter Brock when talking about the coupes. Carroll likes to re-write history as he goes along Shelby had nothing to do with the design of the new GT500 (it's not a "cobra"). The car was entirely Ford. All the other current Shelbys ARE actually modified by Shelby in Las Vegas just like the old days. And Shelby builds the KR and does the SuperSnake GT500 conversions in Vegas as well.blueovaldave said:
Oh, and it was the 60s, not the 70s
.Soooo, when are you going to send me thoseFORDSVTPARTS said:
The bottom line here, is this is classic Carroll. This is nothing new. From day one, Carroll has been a cut throat salesman. The very first Cobra (CSX2000) was painted 3 different colors to trick the media into thinking Carroll had an operation production of running cars. On the 427 street cars, Carroll started putting 428s in them with 427 valve covers and didn't tell anyone. In the 90s, Carroll claimed he had "leftover" chassis from the 60s, "finished" those cars, and then sold them for 500k each. The truth was he hired Mike McCluskey (famous Cobra restorer) to build them from scratch. Of course, the feds caught the old coot on that one.
Don't get me wrong... I will forever be greatful to Carroll for creating the greatest automotive icon of all time. That can never be taken away. What he did in the 50s as a driver, and the 60s as a manufacturer, is legendary history. But it doesn't change who he is, and you can't fool people in this day and age anymore.
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I understand why Carrol is suing....but instead of suing, why doesn't he buy the FFR Co. and let them fly some of the Shelby or Cobra monikers and get a small percentage of FFR sales. Everyone wins.
Power Surge said:Spoken like a true TS enthusiast
Sorry to disappoint but I’m not a TS enthusiast, just a former SAAC member and SVTOA Director who saw Ken Eber screw SVTOA and enjoys seeing him ridiculed on every front. Even the Kool Aid swilling SAAC boys have put down their glasses once the dine and dash lawsuit was published. I guess they finally figured out it was "their" cash that was unaccounted for.
BTW, if anyone ever sees Ken just ask him "Where's Puff?” A bunch of the SVTOA Regional Directors are dying to know.
Maybe the reason Superformance "opened their wallet to the old man" was legally they don't own the trademarks that Shelby does and would have lost in court. They can probably sell more cars with a Shelby blessing (or serial number) than without.
When I was at the Shelby shop for the 85th Birthday to work the on track instruction, Superformance was making a big deal that the Daytona Coupe on display was the first to carry a CSX number and not a Superformance number. That sounds a bit more than an emblem to me.
What I think the whole trademark issue comes down to is Shelby needs to get everything under control and in order before he passes on. If Shelby does not vigorously enforce it now then it may be more difficult for his heirs and company to be able to do it later. Also Ford has to protect its interests in dealings with Shelby. There are a bunch of new Fords sporting Shelby badges at dealerships and SVT designed parts are in those Shelby’s.
Remember Ford's racing history is synonymous with Shelby. As good as Holman Moody and Bud Moore were for Ford you don’t see anyone today actively talking about them like Shelby.
Sal, I also notice your sig says you have a Shelby American 427 S/C CSX4241.
I'll bet the Shelby American on the VIN plate carries more weight with you than if it read SAI.
Auto Carriers, my bad.Power Surge said:
BTW, I applied at Mike McCluskey's shop when I moved to Hermosa Beach Cali. My dad was good friends with Phil Schmidt (sp?) of P.S. Engineering and got me in for interview. Unfortunately they didn't have any openings at the time. I would have loved to build myself a DayCoupe!!!!
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