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Gas Prices aka biker16 vs everyone!
AJAx
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Re: Gas Prices
your right bigdaddyG8 supplies are extremely high so they create "events" to make it seem as though supply is down but its not its manipulation lets start a vote here if your okay with gas companies racking up prices like they are manipulating the marker please vote "yes" if not vote "no" and if you dont mind post your salary in a year and then take that sticker price you got when you bought your cars of cost per year divide that by the cost that they used to get that number which is on there...which will give you "X" amount of gallons multiply that number you have there by $5 so your equation should be as follows
(Sticker Estimation Cost per Year) / (Sticker Gas price used) = (Number of Estimated Gallons) X ($5 Projected gas price) = (New Cost per year)
then I would like to take that New Cost per year and do this equation
(Take Home Pay) - (Current Expenses electric, water, gas, mortgage/rent food etc) - (New Cost Per Year) = (Estimated Play Money)
Remember that number is not what you will actually have because the EPA on fuel cost estimation is very low and if your okay with that final number and think you can be happy with that while the gas company officials make $50+ million the ones who really are reaping the benefits of your hard work vote YES if not vote NO
your right bigdaddyG8 supplies are extremely high so they create "events" to make it seem as though supply is down but its not its manipulation lets start a vote here if your okay with gas companies racking up prices like they are manipulating the marker please vote "yes" if not vote "no" and if you dont mind post your salary in a year and then take that sticker price you got when you bought your cars of cost per year divide that by the cost that they used to get that number which is on there...which will give you "X" amount of gallons multiply that number you have there by $5 so your equation should be as follows
(Sticker Estimation Cost per Year) / (Sticker Gas price used) = (Number of Estimated Gallons) X ($5 Projected gas price) = (New Cost per year)
then I would like to take that New Cost per year and do this equation
(Take Home Pay) - (Current Expenses electric, water, gas, mortgage/rent food etc) - (New Cost Per Year) = (Estimated Play Money)
Remember that number is not what you will actually have because the EPA on fuel cost estimation is very low and if your okay with that final number and think you can be happy with that while the gas company officials make $50+ million the ones who really are reaping the benefits of your hard work vote YES if not vote NO
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21,315 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
There is no REAL justification for oil to be priced where it is, and for gasoline priced where it is.
BTW... my friend that works in the oil industry in Texas is complaining because there aren't enough hours in the day to pump all the oil out of the ground that they are working.
The only thing we can do is to stop driving as biker said... the reality is, that's just NOT a real possibility... and they know it.
There is no REAL justification for oil to be priced where it is, and for gasoline priced where it is.
BTW... my friend that works in the oil industry in Texas is complaining because there aren't enough hours in the day to pump all the oil out of the ground that they are working.
Re: Gas Prices
I Listen to all aspects before formulating and opinion yes a business deserves to be profitable yes I agree but when your constantly reporting record profits as then say price is high because of X,Y, and Z but still are turning out record profits I have an issue with that cause your lying to my face....cause when X,Y, and Z aren't there the price is still high
I Listen to all aspects before formulating and opinion yes a business deserves to be profitable yes I agree but when your constantly reporting record profits as then say price is high because of X,Y, and Z but still are turning out record profits I have an issue with that cause your lying to my face....cause when X,Y, and Z aren't there the price is still high
Re: Gas Prices
You can't stop driving you have to get groceries you have to go buy clothes you have to go to work either you do that or dig off the government which would you rather have a bunch of people doing nothing living next to you as you work your ass off basically paying for them in tax dollars or would you rather have a society working as hard as you paying for themselves
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21,315 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
Obviously... that was my point.
Obviously... that was my point.
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Re: Gas Prices
As for what I do...I moved less than 3 miles from work and I bought a Ford Fiesta that I can get 45mpg on the freeway and 33 on the street. But that does nothing about the fact that everything I buy is going to cost more money because gas has increased so much for essentially no reason at all.
So basically you just ignored everything I wrote and repeated yourself again? As stated, we as a country don't have a choice as to whether or not we use gas. Gasoline is part of the foundation of our economy.
As for what I do...I moved less than 3 miles from work and I bought a Ford Fiesta that I can get 45mpg on the freeway and 33 on the street. But that does nothing about the fact that everything I buy is going to cost more money because gas has increased so much for essentially no reason at all.
Re: Gas Prices
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24794852/ns/business-answer_desk/
the concept works. they do not need a reason to bid up the price other than if the market will pay. they should sell it for that price.
if it is too high the buyer will buy less, and they produce less oil.
oil prices crash and they can spike. the trend of higher prices is driven by increased demand and reduction in the number of new oil being found.
if the market works we will not run out of it. government intervention has the effect of deterring the production of more oil, which can create a shortage, which when given the choice high oil prices or no oil, most prefer higher prices.
Remember the Oil lines of the 70s were not caused by oil prices but by government OIL rationing, that did not let the price of oil rise, keeping the price down created a shortage. that forced the government to ration oil, because the US refused to pay the market price for oil. the producers refused to sell oil at a discounted price.
OUr oil consumption per capita has fallen after the 2008 price spike, the US is better able to weather these price spike than before. We will be fine.
what do the numbers matter? the concept is proven and sound, there has never been a proven case of oil price fixing in the futures market.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24794852/ns/business-answer_desk/
the concept works. they do not need a reason to bid up the price other than if the market will pay. they should sell it for that price.
if it is too high the buyer will buy less, and they produce less oil.
oil prices crash and they can spike. the trend of higher prices is driven by increased demand and reduction in the number of new oil being found.
if the market works we will not run out of it. government intervention has the effect of deterring the production of more oil, which can create a shortage, which when given the choice high oil prices or no oil, most prefer higher prices.
Remember the Oil lines of the 70s were not caused by oil prices but by government OIL rationing, that did not let the price of oil rise, keeping the price down created a shortage. that forced the government to ration oil, because the US refused to pay the market price for oil. the producers refused to sell oil at a discounted price.
OUr oil consumption per capita has fallen after the 2008 price spike, the US is better able to weather these price spike than before. We will be fine.
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21,315 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
It's not a simple supply and demand market when it comes to fuel.
The effects are far and deep reaching.
We're not talking about TVs and dirt bikes. We can't just NOT buy gas...
and there ARE record reserves, so your supply side is blown out already.
It's not a simple supply and demand market when it comes to fuel.
The effects are far and deep reaching.
We're not talking about TVs and dirt bikes. We can't just NOT buy gas...
and there ARE record reserves, so your supply side is blown out already.
Re: Gas Prices
Biker must have some serious money that he doesn't mind losing the society is coming to have's and have not's the issue is our government cares so all it does is raise your taxes biker let gas prices go up unemployment will rise cause businesses cant keep their doors open if your ok with it fine...but thing about your kids do you really want them to be in danger cause if they see you or them still just going along with gas prices high your a target dont just be ok and put yourself in danger....the gas stuff has to end and end now
Biker must have some serious money that he doesn't mind losing the society is coming to have's and have not's the issue is our government cares so all it does is raise your taxes biker let gas prices go up unemployment will rise cause businesses cant keep their doors open if your ok with it fine...but thing about your kids do you really want them to be in danger cause if they see you or them still just going along with gas prices high your a target dont just be ok and put yourself in danger....the gas stuff has to end and end now
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Re: Gas Prices
It seems as if Biker is purposely being short-sighted to prove a point, and ignoring the major point many of us have made already: If the price to transport the milk increases 30%+, guess what happens regardless of whether or not you drive a V8 or a Prius? I give it another couple weeks before we see the prices of items like food and general consumer goods start to climb steadily.
Precisely. "Supply and demand" ceases to be when the product becomes a necessity. Furthermore, if it were a supply and demand market (which it isn't), then prices would sitting at $1.40 per gallon right now.
It seems as if Biker is purposely being short-sighted to prove a point, and ignoring the major point many of us have made already: If the price to transport the milk increases 30%+, guess what happens regardless of whether or not you drive a V8 or a Prius? I give it another couple weeks before we see the prices of items like food and general consumer goods start to climb steadily.
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6,896 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
People have been speculating about oil since.... oh, FOREVER. It's the way the market works. It sucks sure, but what goes on goes across every aspect of the market. People hedge and short sell stuff all the time.
Its people speculating on the probable change in price, and while it sucks, its perfectly legitimate. Libya only produces 7% of the worlds oil? Well, 7% is a pretty huge chunk when you're talking about the entire planet, and the fact that the whole government could be turned upside down is pretty serious. Completely ax that percentage of oil and you do indeed have an issue on your hands.
And your argument about the US having tons of oil held up is so moot at this point its old. Everyone said the same thing when gas spiked a few years ago, and then AGAIN like a year later, and then AGAIN like a year later.
If we ripped through our reserves every time gas prices spiked we wouldn't have a whole lot to show for it besides less reserves and a nominal change in price.
I don't even think you saying all the "big government fat cats in Washington" are making tons of cash off this is even worth dignifying with a response.
Dude you seriously need to take the tin hat off your head.
People have been speculating about oil since.... oh, FOREVER. It's the way the market works. It sucks sure, but what goes on goes across every aspect of the market. People hedge and short sell stuff all the time.
Its people speculating on the probable change in price, and while it sucks, its perfectly legitimate. Libya only produces 7% of the worlds oil? Well, 7% is a pretty huge chunk when you're talking about the entire planet, and the fact that the whole government could be turned upside down is pretty serious. Completely ax that percentage of oil and you do indeed have an issue on your hands.
And your argument about the US having tons of oil held up is so moot at this point its old. Everyone said the same thing when gas spiked a few years ago, and then AGAIN like a year later, and then AGAIN like a year later.
If we ripped through our reserves every time gas prices spiked we wouldn't have a whole lot to show for it besides less reserves and a nominal change in price.
I don't even think you saying all the "big government fat cats in Washington" are making tons of cash off this is even worth dignifying with a response.
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526 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
I think this is definitely a little excessive. There's no way that wages are that much less in the US than in Canada, and here we are paying $5.00 / gallon for gas in some markets. We have for some time. In Winnipeg, the Shell across the street is posted at $1.16/litre for regular. For a US 3.78 Litre gallon, that's $4.39 -- for Premium it's up at $5.00 here. I know that in Ontario and Quebec it is higher still.
Yet our economy does not come crashing down. Yes, prices go up, yes inflation rises, but this doomsday talk helps no one. All it does is promulgate fear and reduce discretionary spending to the point where local economies are unnecessarily adversely affected. In my opinion, so take that with a grain of salt.
Admittedly the joke that gas prices are actually based in the concept of supply and demand is just that.. a joke. Absolutely farce seen with perspicuity by the entirety.
I think this is definitely a little excessive. There's no way that wages are that much less in the US than in Canada, and here we are paying $5.00 / gallon for gas in some markets. We have for some time. In Winnipeg, the Shell across the street is posted at $1.16/litre for regular. For a US 3.78 Litre gallon, that's $4.39 -- for Premium it's up at $5.00 here. I know that in Ontario and Quebec it is higher still.
Yet our economy does not come crashing down. Yes, prices go up, yes inflation rises, but this doomsday talk helps no one. All it does is promulgate fear and reduce discretionary spending to the point where local economies are unnecessarily adversely affected. In my opinion, so take that with a grain of salt.
Admittedly the joke that gas prices are actually based in the concept of supply and demand is just that.. a joke. Absolutely farce seen with perspicuity by the entirety.
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Re: Gas Prices
It shouldn't be a factor, because 1. The Saudi's will ramp up production to cover any slack, and have announced their intention to do so, and 2. Because it's not like the supply is lost only disrupted. No one is going to let chaos rage on 7% of the worlds oil supply. Somalia is a disaster because they're not sitting on oil reserves, so the international community doesn't have the national interests inherent there. 7% is a big enough chunk that countries interests would be adversely affected.
However, it was noted that the Saudi's have indicated they would increase production to account for that, and so the issue is taken off the table.
It shouldn't be a factor, because 1. The Saudi's will ramp up production to cover any slack, and have announced their intention to do so, and 2. Because it's not like the supply is lost only disrupted. No one is going to let chaos rage on 7% of the worlds oil supply. Somalia is a disaster because they're not sitting on oil reserves, so the international community doesn't have the national interests inherent there. 7% is a big enough chunk that countries interests would be adversely affected.
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2,573 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
Just checked the price online per barrel, 101 and some change. So why was it up to 160 per barrel last year yet gas was around $4(+ some change)? And nobody seems to be bitching now like everyone was last year. Wonder what the companies profits are now? Nevermind I don't want to know.
edit: maybe 2 years ago not last, whichever, the time frame is not the point anyway
Just checked the price online per barrel, 101 and some change. So why was it up to 160 per barrel last year yet gas was around $4(+ some change)? And nobody seems to be bitching now like everyone was last year. Wonder what the companies profits are now? Nevermind I don't want to know.
edit: maybe 2 years ago not last, whichever, the time frame is not the point anyway
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9,011 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
Putting this in perspective, Libya contributes ~1.6 million barrels per day. Saudi Arabia contributes ~8.4 million barrels today, and could very easily bump that number up to ~12.4 million barrels (they run a surplus of 4 million) per day without breaking a sweat. Speculators using Libya as an excuse for the oil price is a joke and an insult. The only thing that would realistically happen due to the Libya turmoil is that Libya's economy is going to tank due to the amount of their GDP relies on a product they are not producing. It should have no effect whatsoever on the oil market with the exception of Saudi Arabia being able to sell off more of their surplus.
Suggesting that the loss of Libya's 7% might would necessitate the kinds of increases we have been seeing is an absolute joke. Countries such as Saudi Arabia have been pumping at decreased capacity for quite some time. Given that Saudi contributions make up ~30% of OPEC's total (number from 2005, can't find a more recent) oil, a loss of 7% from Libya is not a big deal at all.
Putting this in perspective, Libya contributes ~1.6 million barrels per day. Saudi Arabia contributes ~8.4 million barrels today, and could very easily bump that number up to ~12.4 million barrels (they run a surplus of 4 million) per day without breaking a sweat. Speculators using Libya as an excuse for the oil price is a joke and an insult. The only thing that would realistically happen due to the Libya turmoil is that Libya's economy is going to tank due to the amount of their GDP relies on a product they are not producing. It should have no effect whatsoever on the oil market with the exception of Saudi Arabia being able to sell off more of their surplus.
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6,896 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
I don't agree with how the system operates, but I can see why it does the way it does. Around the board you run into issues at every which way you turn (in terms of using up reserves, selling surplus, setting price, betting on futures, etc). It's just a skewed system to begin with, but seems to be a necessary evil when dealing with investors and governments (and a product like oil) across the globe.
*I was looking around for numbers and found this article. I personally, think this is a pretty stand up way to deal with a bad situation.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-23/...ld/libya.saudi.arabia.oil_1_swing-producer-surplus-oil-peter-beutel?_s=PM:WORLD
I wouldn't say speculators are moving purely on Libya's actions. I think the entire thing is situational. When you have unrest that has spread like it has, its pretty easy to see that if the dominos keep falling in the correct manner its going to have an impact on the oil market. As it stands though, I have to say I don't see this as a colossal holding rise in gas prices. My bet is in due time it'll be back down around where it was.
I don't agree with how the system operates, but I can see why it does the way it does. Around the board you run into issues at every which way you turn (in terms of using up reserves, selling surplus, setting price, betting on futures, etc). It's just a skewed system to begin with, but seems to be a necessary evil when dealing with investors and governments (and a product like oil) across the globe.
*I was looking around for numbers and found this article. I personally, think this is a pretty stand up way to deal with a bad situation.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-02-23/...ld/libya.saudi.arabia.oil_1_swing-producer-surplus-oil-peter-beutel?_s=PM:WORLD
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8,617 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
Well you also realize that canada imports a lot of stuff from the US so I'm not really surprised that your economy hasn't crashed yet, our economy still hasn't recovered and this will not help it to. A gallon of premium near me is 3.58 - 3.60 not this 3.38 you speak of. I also remember how bad it got when it was $4/gallon, $5/gallon would be even worse. I think most ppl wouldn't go to work if they had to put over $50 into their car just to make it to work heck for most ppl that's a good bit of their paychecks. The ones that really benefit from high gas prices and high goods cost is the government take for instance if your milk cost $4 and assuming only a 1% tax on it that's 4 cents now bump that milk up to say $ 6 that tax is now 6 cents, get the picture?? Government benefits more then the oil companies do from high gas prices. So I personally blame the speculators being in cahoots with the government to raise gas and everything else for that matter up.
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526 Posts
Re: Gas Prices
To say that I really can go ahead and pay $763.33 / mnth ($40,000 x 1.12 + say, $1000 dest / 60 months at 0% interest) is simply not true at all. The vast majority of people couldn't afford transportation at that price, and that's one of those 'alternatives'. In many regions as well, there simply isn't the population density to support massive mass transit infrastructure. You need to drive.
Quoted for emphasis. For huge numbers of people there is no other choice. And given that, say, a volt is like $40,000 CAD or more, with paltry incentives, who can afford that?
To say that I really can go ahead and pay $763.33 / mnth ($40,000 x 1.12 + say, $1000 dest / 60 months at 0% interest) is simply not true at all. The vast majority of people couldn't afford transportation at that price, and that's one of those 'alternatives'. In many regions as well, there simply isn't the population density to support massive mass transit infrastructure. You need to drive.
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