how do you guys think some yokohama S.drive's would look on a set of Motegi Racing MR221? i was looking at 17x8 for the wheels and either 215-35-17 or 205-35-17 for the tires?
Strech?
kosherboy
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I have to agree with Nick. General tire size to wheel width scenarios are useless because there are no standards and you know it. Industry definitions, legal aspects.... really?
Stretch is stretch, you know it when its there. Just as there's really no defined "stance" but you know a good one when you see it.
Since we are nitpicking, OP you spelled stretch wrong, it is illegal to do so as indicated in the Grammar Industry Standards Handbook To Read And Write Good: Volume Blurple
Stretch is stretch, you know it when its there. Just as there's really no defined "stance" but you know a good one when you see it.
Since we are nitpicking, OP you spelled stretch wrong, it is illegal to do so as indicated in the Grammar Industry Standards Handbook To Read And Write Good: Volume Blurple
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:lol:
REALLY! :thumbup:
you are right, there are no standards when it comes to sizing/fitment. however, that doesn't mean it's completely arbitrary or up to someone's opinion like you guys seem to suggest.
what makes a good stance is completely subjective and 100% a personal preference.
are you REALLY saying that stretched is completely subjective as well?
are you guys even reading what i have posted because it seems you are all fixated on one sentence and blind to the rest.
REALLY! :thumbup:
you are right, there are no standards when it comes to sizing/fitment. however, that doesn't mean it's completely arbitrary or up to someone's opinion like you guys seem to suggest.
what makes a good stance is completely subjective and 100% a personal preference.
are you REALLY saying that stretched is completely subjective as well?
are you guys even reading what i have posted because it seems you are all fixated on one sentence and blind to the rest.
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If we sat at a car show next to your friend's car asking people looking at the car if the tires were stretched, 99% would say yesare you REALLY saying that stretched is completely subjective as well?
And I say 99% because you would be there looking at tire size, measuring wheel width, and reciting "the law"
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:lol:
i said they looked stretched, said that from the beginning. i also said from a legal standpoint and industry standard they are not. apparently that is exceedingly hard for you guys to understand!? :dunno:
i'll put it this way:
would you agree that virtually all tire shops don't go by looks of a tire, they go by specs of the tires and wheels in question?
yes or no?
would you also agree that if a tire is in spec, chances are they will mount it on the wheel in question?
yes or no?
Conversely, would you also agree, if it's out of spec they probably wont mount that tire on that wheel (assuming they aren't one of the few shops who will stretch tires or you have some sort of bro-deal worked out with)?
yes or no?
now, if the tires in question "LOOK STRETCHED" but are in spec, the shop might be hesitant but upon review of the spec, they are legal, they will probably let them go out the door.
this is where that "industry" and "legal" definition comes into play.
do i need to dumb this down any more for you guys??
you guys can say they are stretched if you want, honestly i'm at the point where i could careless what you do in your own worlds or however you guys want to go about your daily and discuss this at shows.
for the purposes of this sort of modification and discussion of it on this site....
THIS IS THE REALITY OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN!
you guys are going to have to come to grips with this because i will not bend on this definition and we will hash up this debate over and over again.
as stupid as you guys think this is i have shown this to thread to probably 20-25 licensed techs all over NA and all of them are laughing at you guys!
as a Licensed tech, someone who does this for a living and is liable for such things done to MY CUSTOMER'S CARS, it matters to ME. i'll go out on a limb and say it matters to every tech with a ticket, who is 100% liable and automatically at fault in the eyes of the court, and cares about his career! if it's in spec, i don't care what it looks like because as far as the law is concerned, i did not perform an illegal mod. for you guys where it doesn't matter because you only work on your cars, and most aren't done right to begin with, do what you like! :thumbup:
as it stands i will point this out every time, and we will get into this same argument every time until A: you guys adopt this definition and work with it; or B: suck it up and deal with it; or C: the cows come home!
your choice, i really don't care how stupid you guys think this is.
Oh and, for the record: Shauns tires look like they have similar stretch to my 215/40 conti3s on 9.5" wheels, +1" past spec!
i said they looked stretched, said that from the beginning. i also said from a legal standpoint and industry standard they are not. apparently that is exceedingly hard for you guys to understand!? :dunno:
i'll put it this way:
would you agree that virtually all tire shops don't go by looks of a tire, they go by specs of the tires and wheels in question?
yes or no?
would you also agree that if a tire is in spec, chances are they will mount it on the wheel in question?
yes or no?
Conversely, would you also agree, if it's out of spec they probably wont mount that tire on that wheel (assuming they aren't one of the few shops who will stretch tires or you have some sort of bro-deal worked out with)?
yes or no?
now, if the tires in question "LOOK STRETCHED" but are in spec, the shop might be hesitant but upon review of the spec, they are legal, they will probably let them go out the door.
this is where that "industry" and "legal" definition comes into play.
do i need to dumb this down any more for you guys??
you guys can say they are stretched if you want, honestly i'm at the point where i could careless what you do in your own worlds or however you guys want to go about your daily and discuss this at shows.
for the purposes of this sort of modification and discussion of it on this site....
THIS IS THE REALITY OF THE WORLD YOU LIVE IN!
you guys are going to have to come to grips with this because i will not bend on this definition and we will hash up this debate over and over again.
as stupid as you guys think this is i have shown this to thread to probably 20-25 licensed techs all over NA and all of them are laughing at you guys!
as a Licensed tech, someone who does this for a living and is liable for such things done to MY CUSTOMER'S CARS, it matters to ME. i'll go out on a limb and say it matters to every tech with a ticket, who is 100% liable and automatically at fault in the eyes of the court, and cares about his career! if it's in spec, i don't care what it looks like because as far as the law is concerned, i did not perform an illegal mod. for you guys where it doesn't matter because you only work on your cars, and most aren't done right to begin with, do what you like! :thumbup:
as it stands i will point this out every time, and we will get into this same argument every time until A: you guys adopt this definition and work with it; or B: suck it up and deal with it; or C: the cows come home!
your choice, i really don't care how stupid you guys think this is.
Oh and, for the record: Shauns tires look like they have similar stretch to my 215/40 conti3s on 9.5" wheels, +1" past spec!
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If your post wasn't typed out so well Mitch, I would have thought we were arguing with Mullet Power.
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I have my certs, but then again I'm not a "licensed tech" working in a tire shop so I really don't give a ****. I fix cars not mount tires, any moron can do that. Law and spec is useless when there is no damn standard spec to begin with.
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interesting...
i'll assume that this is probably the reason why everyone in here doesn't seem to get this yet.
stretching tires has been around for longer than probably anyone in this thread has been alive. it dates back to bias-ply tires and into the 40s and 50s. It was not uncommon for racers to use the act of putting a wider wheel on their car to increase the contact patch size of their tires, tires that were very limited in size selection. aside from increasing their contact patch is also allowed to tune certain aspects of how the cars handled. suspension technology was still pretty archaic, but the basic premise was to use a tire beyond the prescribed maximum width of wheel to assist in tailoring slip angle amongst other things. even though the term and act has been around for decades, the advent of the modern radial tire and a massive increase with tire selection has seen the term fade away to the point you're hard pressed to find people that are familiar with it in the true context.
only in the past 5, maybe 10 (in certain circles), years has the term morphed into what you guys strictly view it as. even then, when it was starting it's rise back to common place, it still started and stayed as a term regarding putting tires on oversized wheels beyond the max spec of the tire.
to answer your question, in the modern world and use of the style, there is no reason other than perfect fitment and or tire preference.
thank you, i've been working on that!
:thumbup:You don't need to be a licensed tech working at a tire shop, or even be some monkey fliping tires at a tire shop. (although they are often the ones who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to tires. where as, many techs don't know their ass from a hole in the ground beyond the same cars the work on day in and day out!) I don't work in a tire shop either, nor have i ever, if that's what you are suggesting. prior to buggering up my back causing me to quit and go back to school for engineering, i was working for a professional race team for 4 years as a licensed tech an have been a tech for over 10 years now.
actually there is a standard spec set-out by every manufacturer. i posted such a standard on the first page, and it's available on damn near every site that sells tires and comes directly from the company that makes the tires! even the tirerack posts the specs for the tires they sell. that is "THE STANDARD" whether you like it or not, whether you can wrap your head around it or not.
if you have your "certs" and mount a tire out of spec on a customer car; they get a blow out and the tire comes off the bead causing a crash... regardless of whether it's the cause of the stretch/pinch, it will take zero effort for the lawyer to convince the judge that you performed and illegal modification on the car. "having your certs" means you should know better and even if the tire wasn't visually stretched you are 100% liable for all damages. WHY? because you deviated from the standard set by the manufacturer. if it's a serious accident, and a crash scene investigator is called out, they look at EVERYTHING about the car, tires, size condition, spec to factory everything. a very good friends wife is one and we have discussed this at lenght numerous times. you live in America where you can and will be sued for damn near anything. if someone KNOWS what they are doing and do it on their own accord, that's their choice. as a tech, if you do something outside accepted standards; like a tire out of spec is not accepted regardless if it looks stretched or not, you are almost automatically at fault. now, you might work in a big show/dealer where you're protected personally, but if you own your own business or do work on the side, even for free... you're fuNked!
this is why saying something like "that tire is technically not stretched because it's still in spec BUT it gives you the look of stretch so you get the best of both worlds" or "technically it'll be stretched past spec but those tires show next to no visual stretch unless you go X.XX" past spec" is better than "it's stretched because it looks stretched!" or "It's not stretched because it doesn't look stretched" or "It's not stretched because the lip isn't showing enough!" :screwy:
but what it sounds like you are suggesting, is a "visual standard." which is ridiculous because construction of tires changes depending on their intended use, from brand to brand and even within sizes in the same model range. i highly doubt the Fuzions where designed for stretch considering the ZRI(or whatever it's called) were around in 2000/2001. they are a price point tire and like many of them, cheap out in many areas such as the carcass and sidewalls. some really cheap brands were even known for selling one size of tire with 2 different size stampings on them so they could cover more market with out as much cost. :dunno:
!
sorry this is so complicated for you guys!?
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tl:dnr
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Nevermind -_-
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It's not complicated. I completely get it, I'm not dumb. I'm ~6 months away from a Mechanical Engineering degree. Maybe next I can go for some Certifications and Licenses so I can look down upon the world like you do
I just can't believe you're still writing novels over it, and the levels of immaturity you've stooped to in your grand novels. But thank you for the entertainment!
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If you "get it" what are you on about?
And I'm not "looking down" on anyone. If that's how you take it, I'm sorry but that's your deal.
"Looks like" does not have to equate to "actually is."
Just like "actually is" does not have to equate to "looks like."
And I'm not "looking down" on anyone. If that's how you take it, I'm sorry but that's your deal.
"Looks like" does not have to equate to "actually is."
Just like "actually is" does not have to equate to "looks like."
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We get it Mitch, it's like all your other useless rants - you're right (in your own mind), we're wrong. There's no use arguing function when everyone is doing it for form. NOBODY is putting stretched tires on their dumped cars for technical reasons - it's for looks. We don't care if you think it needs some technical reasoning behind it. If the width of the rim is beyond the width of the tire's shoulder, and it looks stretched - BFD if it's not technically stretched. Buh bye now.
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Not that I actually give a **** about what you think of me or anyone here, I couldn't care less.
You ever see a horrible wreck you really don't want to watch but you can't make yourself look away? Yeah, that's this thread.
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Well, I got an email response from the Big Women in Stretch Pants. According to their handbook, the definition of stretch is: When the lips can be seen on the outside. Toe may need to be adjusted for better fitment, they elaborated. Many of their members have had problems with Toe. Depending on how much Toe you have, it can affect the desired look of your stretch.
I hope this clears things up.
I hope this clears things up.
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