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Discussion Starter #1
\'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Hello folks.

Well my 2001 Focus needs a sibling and I've settled on a new Escape. I have my eye on two of 'em at two different Ford dealerships. One of them is about $1,500 below invoice and the other one is about $600 below invoice. I've checked these numbers both on KBB.com and Edmunds.com.

How are the dealers making money on this?

The Escape that is going for $22,495 is the one I really want but I want to know what the catch is.

Do I still have some wiggle room to negotiate?

Thanks for your help!
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

There is money set aside by manufacturers for dealers, called holdback...that's how "below invoice" deals can still make the dealer money.

I'd grind 'em down as low as you think you can.
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Yeah, invoice means nothing these days. It's kinda like the "regular price" on store shelves these days. It's just an imaginary number nobody actually pays.

The invoice is the "bill" that the dealership gets, but then Ford refunds several thousand dollars after the sale. So the invoice isn't the real cost. It's all a bit shady if you ask me, and discredits the whole car purchasing process.

Here's another tip. All the "incentives" everybody is crying about... check the sticker prices over the last few years.

Most sticker prices have inflated over the past few years, and in some cases have increased more than incentives!

So, they want you to believe that the car is "on sale" and you're really hammering them... when you're not.

It's just like all the furniture stores etc., where they have "Perma Sales". They always have a sale. And they offer "interest free" 1 year payments or whatever. A smart buyer knows those costs are baked into the price...
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Thanks guys!

Escape #1 is "on sale" for $22,495 and Escape #2 is "on sale" for $23,210.

What is a good rule of thumb on how much I should discount those figures so that I get to a point that I am comfortable with saying "yes"?

Thanks again!
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Thanks guys!

Escape #1 is "on sale" for $22,495 and Escape #2 is "on sale" for $23,210.

What is a good rule of thumb on how much I should discount those figures so that I get to a point that I am comfortable with saying "yes"?

Thanks again!
Take a look at Edmunds TMV and then back out another grand. If you can get it for that or less BUY IT!
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Usually when you buy at or below invoice, the salesman doesn't make squat on the deal. The dealership still does from holdback and other manufacturer to dealer incentives.
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Yeah, invoice means nothing these days. It's kinda like the "regular price" on store shelves these days. It's just an imaginary number nobody actually pays.

The invoice is the "bill" that the dealership gets, but then Ford refunds several thousand dollars after the sale. So the invoice isn't the real cost. It's all a bit shady if you ask me, and discredits the whole car purchasing process.

Here's another tip. All the "incentives" everybody is crying about... check the sticker prices over the last few years.

Most sticker prices have inflated over the past few years, and in some cases have increased more than incentives!

So, they want you to believe that the car is "on sale" and you're really hammering them... when you're not.

It's just like all the furniture stores etc., where they have "Perma Sales". They always have a sale. And they offer "interest free" 1 year payments or whatever. A smart buyer knows those costs are baked into the price...
The holdback is 3% of the MSRP not including any PEP (package) Discounts. There often is "dealer" cash added at various times during the year, but it is generally passed on to the customer. Sorry to burst the bubble, but we do not get "Thousands" refunded after the sale by any means!
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

I came very close to picking up a SI at WELL BELOW invoice last weekend... Sticker $19K.... Offered em $10K... they were trying to figure out if you add the rebates to that, etc what the actual price would have been $13K... but then I was like "noo.... I want the final price to be $10K minus the $3K in rebates and incentives"



But still $13K for an SI?


(did I mention that the car needed a jumpstart for the test drive cuz the battery was dead it'd been sitting on the lot so long..... and the build date was 10/02.....)
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

There is money set aside by manufacturers for dealers, called holdback...that's how "below invoice" deals can still make the dealer money.

I'd grind 'em down as low as you think you can.
Just remember you get what you pay for. If the sales person makes <font color="red"> nothing </font> you will get service indicative of <font color="red"> nothing </font> . Car sales people are people too. Most of us have families to support and bills to pay just like you.
Most of us are good people who want to help you, but the bad ones make all of us look bad.
Maybe some day I can grow up to have my own website, where I can make all kinds of dumb rules everyone has to follow... or else,
and make money off of it to pay those bills. BUT until then, I will be the guy that helps you buy the car that works best for you and your family, answers ALL of your questions and sets up your payments so they fit into your budget without putting you into a contract that has you screwed for an extensive period of time. AND by doing ALL of those things for you, Yes, I do think you should pay me. Not a ton, but you should pay me.
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

Once, and only once has a dealer done ANYTHING for me. We rewarded him by going back and buying another car off him. He was great to us. We went back for a third, but he wasn't there anymore. So... I dunno. Doesn't work that well.

Most of the time dealers don't know jack, and aftersales service means holding the door open for you after you pick up the keys.

Then you get a good one you like, and they move on to another dealership in less than a year.


So... I dunno, I'm not gonna sweat it.

For a Ford, I would say you should be able to get down to the X-plan price BEFORE Ford rebates. That's a decent price. That's what our guy did for us, it was very stress free.

"What's your best price?"

"I can give you the Xplan price."

"I dunno if I can get an Xplan, I'll have to find out."

"Well, I'll give you that price anyway. But if you can get it it would help us out cause we'd end up with more money out of the deal."

"Ok, no prob. Deal."

Very stress free. Maybe I could have gotten a few more bills out of him, but it wasn't worth it.

On the second car we bought, TWICE, the DEALER came and picked up the car from Tina's work and dropped it off after work was done on VERY early milage problems. THAT was going above and beyond.

We went back for a 3rd car, and he had been hired by a Toyota dealership. Figures.
 

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Re: \'03 Escape below invoice...how is this possible?

There is money set aside by manufacturers for dealers, called holdback...that's how "below invoice" deals can still make the dealer money.

I'd grind 'em down as low as you think you can.
Just remember you get what you pay for. If the sales person makes <font color="red"> nothing </font> you will get service indicative of <font color="red"> nothing </font> . Car sales people are people too. Most of us have families to support and bills to pay just like you.
Most of us are good people who want to help you, but the bad ones make all of us look bad.
Maybe some day I can grow up to have my own website, where I can make all kinds of dumb rules everyone has to follow... or else,
and make money off of it to pay those bills. BUT until then, I will be the guy that helps you buy the car that works best for you and your family, answers ALL of your questions and sets up your payments so they fit into your budget without putting you into a contract that has you screwed for an extensive period of time. AND by doing ALL of those things for you, Yes, I do think you should pay me. Not a ton, but you should pay me.

I'm with you, brother! I have 11 years in the business at the same family-owned dealership--which happens to be a multi-time Ford President's Award winner. I strive to treat my customers with respect and dignity and yes, honesty. 75-80% of my sales come from repeat and referral business, mostly (I think) because I look at myself as being their automotive sales professional and conduct myself as such. I think most people are willing to pay a little more to get the good service and to have their car buying experience be a pleasant one--I know that I am that way when I go to buy something; in the end all I really want is good service at a fair price.
 
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