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Discussion Starter #1
I know this is a hot subject. I currently have my chip sent off for a reburn. So today I decided to go out and see what the car does without the chip but still having the 24lb injectors.

The car runs perfectly. I am sure it is really rich, but no studdering, no stalling at the stock idle, nothing, just like with the chip or stock.

Now my pro-flow is calabrated to stock injectors. That is the weird part. Tom stated that even if the pro-flow is calabrated to the same size injector you will still need a chip.

I am sure that is still true because I am sure the fuel is running really rich right now. But could I just put a MAFter burner on with the stock calabration? Will the volts allow enough tuning?

It is just really weird. Car starts right up and drives with no problems.

Tell me your thoughts.

Eric
 

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My car does that too. I have 30lb injectors and a pro-m but that's it. No supercharger or nothing big and at first it would bog down until I put the bigger mafs. I think that I may be running to rich but i can't tell because the car runs beautifully. Don't ask why I bought 30lb injectors. it's a long story.
 

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As long as your MAF meter is not pegging out you can use the mafterburner to get rid of all the access fuel. You shouldn't need the chip with the mafterburner. The MAFs does not have to be calibrated for the 24# injectors with the Mafterburner. Pay attention to Naz's post. I went to the Mafterburner tech forum and posted for him to come over here and explain it to these people......Russell
 

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see..here is my point of view after much thought.

I agree with tom and i disagree

In some instances, mostly under FI , a chip is a MUST just because there is more involved then just triming fuel here and there, and going from a stock 18lb calibration to a 42lb or higher WILL skew the timing graph enough to make a difference

BUUUUUUUUUUUUT

When going to a 20-24lb injector setup with calibrated MAFS< the timing curve just DOES NOT change enough to REQUIRE a chip as an absolute need, timing will increase just a few degrees, nothing HUGE, and definetly nothing BAD on a NA car, i wouldnt mind the timing increase.

If the chip is to be done mailorder, then it makes it even worse. Timing i wouldnt worry about, so the only other thing the chip would do is fuel. If you can fine tune fuel yourself as much as you want with a controller like this and a dyno, i really dont see the need for a chip./ Its sort of overrated

BUT THEN AGAIN, i do agree with tom that a chip is also a way to do this, but i would personaly only consider it with FI, where there is a BIG difference in fuel management.

LIke if i get this turbo...i would definetly want tom to help me with fuel.

Hey eric, the stock injectors will still control the 24lb injectors somewhat until the point of 5.0 volts, youre probably at about 4.8 volts now, so its too close to try and use it while tuning.

a recalibrated mafs will not only give you much more room, it will give you a BETTER starting point from where you fine tune it

Does that make sense??
 

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Originally posted by Pimp27:
Yeah, but my MAf is not calabrated for the 24lb injectors...

Eric
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry bout this......
Its gone now.

[ 10-23-2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Russell ]
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So you think that even with the chip I will be pegging close to 5 volts? The guy who is tuning my chip told me that it shouldn't be a problem that the Pro-Flow is calabrated for stock injectors.

He said he could do it either way. Pro-Flow calabrated for stock or 24lb. I am telling you, the guy tuning my chip knows his stuff..

Eric
 

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Naz there you go again telling these people that they do not need a chip when they recal there maf

How do you know this ,how many N/A cars have you tuned

Just going to 24lbs you may get away with it but what about the people that will be going to 30,36 42`s to make big power

If you are trying to make good safe power there is only one way to do it and that is in a chip

Naz you say that a mail order chip is even worse and yet in another post you ask if i can do you one

Look guys it will be timing that will kill there stock bottom ends NOT FUEL

tom
 

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Originally posted by 1turbofocus:
Look guys it will be timing that will kill there stock bottom ends NOT FUEL
tom
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tom, You're wasting your breath here. Naz will NEVER accept the idea that "just a few degrees" of timing will screw up torque and your motor.

You've been REALLY patient with them and I've listened and learned a lot. But you should just accept the fact that Naz WONT change his way of looking at this.

This is for you Naz,

Nothing is more dangerous than an idea when it is the only one you have.
Emile Chartier,
Philosopher
 

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The eecIV never had an issue with 24# injectors being used in older mustangs 19# were stock. Even without recalibrating the MAF. I dont see how you will have any real issue with 24# with the EECV
It is a very adaptable CPU. If you have some mild bolt-ons then just adding 24# injectors will not cause any issue nor harm. Just more fuel.
Will not the EECV just reduce injector pulse when it see's the increased fuel emmissions etc...
It should adapt....

*shrug*
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That is true also. I had a 5.0 mustang with 24lb injectors and a pro-flow calabrated for them. Well the pro-flow went bad and I was forced to run with the stock air meter. The car actually ran perfect. I think it even ran better. So I never bothered getting the pro-flow re calabrated or working agian.

Eric
 

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Tom i think we both agree on what i said though

I said you HAVE to go to tom when going big, but when you need a bit of a fuel boost going to a 20 or 24lb injectore and MAFS, sure the chip would help but its NOT a necessity, where as if you go farther, i still stand by my word, and say IT IS NECESARY TO CALL TOM AND GET A CUSTOM CHIP

Hows that, do we sort of agreee? Tom you know im on your side, i was just trying to explain on what is totally necesary and whats not from my point of view...

If i were to get this turbo, you know I WOULD ONLY GO TO YOU, because then it would become a totally necessity
 

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Originally posted by 1turbofocus:
Naz what i am trying to say again is you will need to take out some timing ,to be safe and make the best HP

tom
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But TOM, on a NA car, as im sure you know, timing is good, to a certain point, like 32-36* or so at 92 octane, 40* or so at 100octane.

Now, you are the only one thats knows what the timing goes to with a recalibrated mafs, so if it goes beyond that, YES HELL YES you need a chip, but if it doesnt, wouldnt that be an advantage??

Again, im just guessing at the overall picture, im not sure exactly what happens to timing with a recalibrated MAFS

I do know 1 thing tom, i will STILL have you make me a chip if i get this turbo, because, frankly, you are the only 1 that can help me...

so tom, can you helpe me??? Pretty please?


Come on you know you wanna help a good ol' buddy out, you owe me 1 for not taking me out on a ride, 2 times damnit
 

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It is true that the PCM is equipped via STFT, LTFT, LMBSE, and various other strategies to adapt to more fuel. As much as +- 25-30%. However that doesn't address the issue of re-calibrated MAF signals. Whether the change is due
to an aftermarket device that changes the MAF voltage or a re-calibrated MAF itself it will skew the load % calculation the the PCM uses as a pointer into its timing and fuel tables.

If you choose to use this method to adjust your a/f then so be it. Live with the results. You will never get FULL POWER from your motor.
 
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