That is a good question, but I think to be accurate they would each need to be measured.

I can tell you that the ZX3 is one of the few cars I've ever found where you can pick a random jacking point, lift the car up on any two wheels, and the door opens and closes as if the car was sitting on the ground. That is some serious stiff. Try that on a Mustang, and the door won't even close... on a 2 door first gen Neon, it'll barely close.

I would suspect that the other Focus shells had similar strength, but until somebody put them up on a twisting rack and measured the values, it is hard to know for sure. I'm sure Ford has, but we'll probably never see that data.

...or maybe we will.. P-51??

 

"How about a sunroof? Does this really make any difference in the rigidity? Did any Focus ever have a sunroof? "

Sunroof, Yes. T-Tops, NO.
My Focus has a Sunroof.
I do know that T-Tops really sacrifice rigidity much more than a sunroof, but I have no Idea on the #'s.

 

As for as weight, the Z Sedan outweights the z3 by 6 lbs.. (curb Weight)

 

the C-dan is likely the stiffest due to the extra reinforcement of the parcel shelf behind the rear seats--just an educated guess, but would make sense.

 

Originally posted by poopoo head:
So... the SVT 2 door would be more rigid than any of these shells

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The SVT shell is the same as the ZX3 shell.

 

I don't want to begin to speculate which car is stiffer because I just don't have the data.

One thing I do know is that there are many forms of "stiff". While the parcel shelf on the sedan might help with certain side to side push-pull forces, it likely doesn't influence torsional (twisting) forces at all.

Think of a crappy bookshelf that wobbles side to side... add a couple shelves and it still wobles side to side. Add diagonal bracing, and it'll never move again.

I would suggest that each form of Focus chassis has spent some serious time in both CAD form and metal form being "beefed up" in strategic locations, so that rigidity might have less to do with body shape and more to do with reinforcements.

It reminds me of the Taurus SHO Wagon that was custom built by Ford for Car & Driver. (Think 1985-1995 Taurus chassis) In standard form, the sedan was some set number "stiffer" (torsionally I believe) than the wagon. It was pretty significant. After very careful seam welding and reinforcing, the one-off SHO Wagon was some 100+% stiffer than the original sedan, while adding very little material to the vehicle. (Less than 100 lbs or so)

I just use this as an example that might suggest similar "beefing" up in key locations within the various Focus chassis that go beyond reasoning relating to parcel shelves, b-pillars, hatch holes, etc.

[ 04-09-2003, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: OmniFocus ]

 

hmm, what you said is very true, OmniFocus. There is also another issue related to different country of origin?

I know that just because a car is built in Mexico doesn't mean that it will be of lower quality than one built in USA or Germany (where the Euro Focus is built) but 'history has shown' that cars built in Mexico are of less quality? Maybe even this isn't true, but some of us would consider not buying a car just because it was built in North America outside of USA and Canada. I am not sure if this constitutes racism (someone once told me that this was) but I don't think it is, and only something that indicates the chances of something being high quality or not.

Let me see now, I drive a ZX5, so I know a Focus built in Mexico feels different than one built in USA. I might be subject to being biased based on prior knowledge that one was built here and the other over there, but the rear seat cushion on my ZX5 is pretty bad. It is lopsided and padded weirdly, not due to design, but bad build. The last few Focus sedans I sat in, the rear cushion was perfect in shape and totally unlike mine. The ZX5 does have a 60/40 split whereas the sedan has a 100 split cushion, but there are other interior trim bits that show the differences in country of origin.

so...I am off topic, but when the Focus was moved from production in Germany to Mexico, Ford didn't bring enough engineers or something to oversee the transplant of the production process and the quality of the Focus went down the hill. Although the design of the Focus was most likely completed in Britain or some European country, it is possible that the small details such as placement of welds or thickness of metal were altered very slightly (but enough to affect perception) in North America due to cost/efficiency or other things.

Yes, there is no way, like you say, to get real numbers or the real facts, but this is just one of the other factors that could affect rigidity in addition to those that have been said and explained.

And I guess I commmitted a crime here by 'Cross-Posting' this thread in another area of the forum, as discovered by MichaelXi (-sorry). I was just trying to get more answers. I also thought that maybe I had posted this in the autocross section where people were more concerned with set-up and technique- and so more people might be interested in the Pit Stop area where anything goes. Here is the link:
http://www.focaljet.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=016838

I'll be more careful to post in the right area the first time, next time. Thanks for all the help.

 

Though the cars are assembled in Mexico and the US, almost all of the parts that go into them come from the same place. The rear seat cushion would be assembled somewhere and sent to both plants, you're just seeing regular production variation.
I used to work for a company that sent modules to both plants. The warranty returns were 5 times higher on the cars built in the US.
But since we're talking about body structure, that can vary quite a bit depending on the plant.
Remember, cars are built to pass crash tests with up to 30% of the welds missing!

 

Wow, what an insight, alexinRO!

What does this last thing mean, that cars are built to pass crash tests with up to 30% welds missing? Does this mean that cars come off the assembly line and arrive at the local dealership with up to 30% of the welds missing?

This means that one car sitting beside another on the lot could be the one to have 100% of the welds and the other just a resemblance of what it should be?

 

If you ever look at a few bare shells next to each other it's pretty clear that there are ways that a car should be put together, and there are ways that it is. The structural panels are never quite the same between two cars. The gaps just a little different. You can see wear in the stamping molds. Fully assembled the cars look identical, but they are always slightly different. I KNOW that cars are getting better consistency wise though. Take the non adjustable camber issue for instance. You could never have done that 15 years ago, too much build variance. Today build variance is tighter but just the fact that the camber between two completely stock is always different should tell you that cars are never put together exactly the same. I'm pretty sure all the welds are there though, automatic welding robots make sure of that.

 

You have the BEST screename

Milan

 

Originally posted by vme:
You have the BEST screename

Milan

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who???

 

hmm, I have never seen a few bare shells sit next to each other.

what do you mean by the stamping molds are worn down? Do you mean that as you stamp pieces, the ones stamped after the previous ones will be a slightly different shape because the wear on the molds has altered the shape of the stamping mold?

The ZX5 I have has humongous, HUGE panel gaps between the rear hatch and the piece of metal that is above the rear wheel. I think a mouse could crawl through there.

I wonder how Lexus manages to build their gaps to within 1/1000 of a millimeter or something. Must have something to do with their prices which cost about 3 times as much as a Focus.

But then VW makes tighter gaps, as does the current Honda Civic with the tightest gaps in the world for the rear tail light area?