As much as I like the specs of the new M5...

Those gauges look like they came straight out of a Kia

 

Hmmmmmmm wonder what we will have to counter..

 

...and its "only" making about 325lb/ft. of torque up near redline. Peak torque is still below 400. The high redline is impressive, but its really not that powerful of an engine.

 

They have a M4 in the works? Interesting...

 

It's making 100hp a liter.

How is that not impressive?

All a matter of opinion though I guess. I am impressed.

 

They have a M4 in the works? Interesting...

Not that interesting. BMW is changing their naming scheme, so the M4 will actually just be an M3 sedan.

 

...and its "only" making about 325lb/ft. of torque up near redline. Peak torque is still below 400. The high redline is impressive, but its really not that powerful of an engine.

It is only a little 5.0 liter...

Drivability is undoubtedly BMW superb as well. I'm having trouble thinking of any engines that are really any more impressive.

 

...and its "only" making about 325lb/ft. of torque up near redline. Peak torque is still below 400. The high redline is impressive, but its really not that powerful of an engine.

It is only a little 5.0 liter...

correct

rather be ready for the M3...

 

...and its "only" making about 325lb/ft. of torque up near redline. Peak torque is still below 400. The high redline is impressive, but its really not that powerful of an engine.

Dont get caught up in the amount of cylinders. For example, the Dodge Viper with a V10 is putting out 500 HP and 500+ ft/lbs of torque but it's using 1.8 liters more displacement to get there (Vipers V10 = 6.8 liters). Where the BMW is using a 5.0 liter V10. So yes more cylinders but smaller, with shorter stroke to allow the high RPM's. So they are doing a heck of alot more with less. Much like a formula 1 car. The Forumula One engines are also 10 cylinders (currently) but are only 3.0 liters which is why they need to rev to 19K RPM's to get their mega High HP numbers.

Dont be fooled, this car might not have the tire shredding torque that some might want (though 380 ft/lbs is nothing to smurk at). However it's is going to plant you in your seat as those RPM's climb!! I can't wait to hear one!

 

(Vipers V10 = 6.8 liters).

Even worse, it is an 8.3L! Of course, low-end torque is fantastic with that sort of displacement.....

 

 

There have been some spy shots of the new M3 sedan on the 'Ring, it had dual exausts poking out from the rear bumper and supposed to have a new 4.0 litre V8 (M5 V10 with two less cylinders, about 400hp or so). I think the M4 is going to be the new coupe/convertible. Good stuff.

~Charlie

 

They have a M4 in the works? Interesting...

Not that interesting. BMW is changing their naming scheme, so the M4 will actually just be an M3 sedan.

Not really, like I just said the M4 will be the coupe/convertible and the M3 sedan. BMW was hesitant to just drop such an icon completely. Here's the website for the M3 spy shots from the 'ring. The E90 is sooo sexy.

BMW M3 spy shots from Germany

~Charlie

 

Dont get caught up in the amount of cylinders. For example, the Dodge Viper with a V10 is putting out 500 HP and 500+ ft/lbs of torque but it's using 1.8 liters more displacement to get there (Vipers V10 = 6.8 liters).

Don't get caught up in looking at displacement either (and its much bigger than that... hot-rodded truck engine).

The LS7 engine in the new Z06 is the same dimensions and slightly lighter than a 5.7 liter 350hp LS1... but the large bore and stroke on it (pretty much maxed out) bumped the displacement up to 7.0 liters. Small V8, huge displacement.

So bigger displacement doesn't always mean bigger/heavier engine... and in fact if an engine has an unusually high redline, most of the time its due to a short stroke (reduces displacement) or just more smaller cylinders. Great if you are trying to win a hp/liter comparison, but not necessarily all that meaningful in itself.

IMO look at the cost, weight, and size of an engine, and then judge its power output based on that. This Beemer engine will probably be quiet running AND smooth as silk as well though (things that make it harder to get max power).

 

It's making 100hp a liter.

How is that not impressive?

All a matter of opinion though I guess. I am impressed.

Its not really that impressive. A high rev engine is ok, mated to an auto tranny or standard in a heavy sports sedan, while its still pretty fast, its not the best idea.

I also think that you really won't get even close to those numbers on the dyno. For some reason something tells me that the engine won't last that long at such high rpm's. That's a lot of valvetrain to push around, time will tell.
-bix

 

I also think that you really won't get even close to those numbers on the dyno. For some reason something tells me that the engine won't last that long at such high rpm's. That's a lot of valvetrain to push around, time will tell.
-bix

That's purely speculation.

 

That's purely speculation.

Yes it is, but it is informed speculation. I'd be happy to find a M5 and dyno it on my own dollar. I'm also a mechanical engineer and I've seen lots and lots of "high" powered high rev machines completely choke on the dyno. Great hp number, not so great torque number and then combined with a heavy weight(3800+lbs), not so great....
I'm also guessing that, that is why they have a 7! speed tranny, to get the right gear ratio's to fit the acceleration they want over the speed. Which is probably why they have nearly 3 overdrive gears.
Again, powerful engine, but I'd REALLY like to see what the power curve looks like on a dyno. Good luck
-bix

 

...and its "only" making about 325lb/ft. of torque up near redline. Peak torque is still below 400. The high redline is impressive, but its really not that powerful of an engine.

Dont get caught up in the amount of cylinders. For example, the Dodge Viper with a V10 is putting out 500 HP and 500+ ft/lbs of torque but it's using 1.8 liters more displacement to get there (Vipers V10 = 6.8 liters). Where the BMW is using a 5.0 liter V10. So yes more cylinders but smaller, with shorter stroke to allow the high RPM's. So they are doing a heck of alot more with less. Much like a formula 1 car. The Forumula One engines are also 10 cylinders (currently) but are only 3.0 liters which is why they need to rev to 19K RPM's to get their mega High HP numbers.

Dont be fooled, this car might not have the tire shredding torque that some might want (though 380 ft/lbs is nothing to smurk at). However it's is going to plant you in your seat as those RPM's climb!! I can't wait to hear one!

perfectly put.

where every high-performance engine is going in high-class automobiles..F1 inspired, more fuel efficient, with less but with more power.

although the American automakers are holding onto the concept from the good ol' tire shredding days..which is good too...

i dunno, im just excited for the future, whether the cars are lookin ugly or not

-chris

 

Again, powerful engine, but I'd REALLY like to see what the power curve looks like on a dyno. Good luck
-bix

So if it performs "poorly" on a dyno, and then puts down advertised numbers in real world performace, does it really matter what the dyno has to say?

I don't think so.

As for your reliability speculation.... it still has to be built well enough to prevent warranty returns. BMW did learn some of that with the last long-stroke high-revver, so lets hope they don't botch that up... but from a corporate and profit standpoint, it would be terrible business to build an engine that falls apart.

 

No I want to see what the power curve looks like. I'm not putting it past a car company to cook their number on a test track with a specialized car. I want to see what the torque looks like at low rpms. With a nearly 2Ton car I want lots and lots of torque down low with the gearing to match. Since its an "automatic" (*manumatic*) I don't see any good in having a car shift down 2-3 times before it gets its revs up to get some good thrust.....
Again just my opinion, I'm jaded because I've been around some VERY high hp cars, my old daily driver is only middle of the pack....
-bix

 

For some reason I don't see this being a car with a bunch of torque down low. Something about a N/A 500hp 5.0L V10 with a redline of 8250 doesn't scream absolute torque monster to me.

It's transmission also does not fit the typical definition of manumatic. It is not an automatic transmission made into a manual transmission.

It is designed specifically to be a sequential manual gearbox and never intended for pure automatic duty, so you may have to blip down a couple of gears if driving the car the way it was intended but you're not going to have to wait for the transmission to make up it's mind or anything.

By the way, I understand that the transmission will have a manual mode but it was intended to be manually shifted, that mode is only there for the lazy.

 

Somehow i dont understand about the M5 - the car is over 4000 pounds and has 500hp - it did better than viper on the track (which has much lower weight) - how can this be?

 

A Viper is hard to drive on the limit? M5 is not? That would be my guess.. Also that 7 speed SMG transmission with the microsecond shifts keeping it in the powerband probably doesn't hurt

.

And sure the M5 isn't a torque monster, what do you expect with a 5 liter V10 that revs to 8200 rpm? Compared to other 5 liter engines it makes more than enough torque, and way more hp. But to say it's not impressive is just crazy talk. The V10 weighs less than the old V8 from what I understand as well.

 

A Viper is hard to drive on the limit? M5 is not? That would be my guess.. Also that 7 speed SMG transmission with the microsecond shifts keeping it in the powerband probably doesn't hurt

.

And sure the M5 isn't a torque monster, what do you expect with a 5 liter V10 that revs to 8200 rpm? Compared to other 5 liter engines it makes more than enough torque, and way more hp. But to say it's not impressive is just crazy talk. The V10 weighs less than the old V8 from what I understand as well.

The old low compression 5.0L 302 put down 300 fb-ft of torque at around 2000rpm with the wimpy cam it had. I've seen with a cam change and a good computer tune a engine put down almost 320lb-ft at the tires! I will say the best 302 hp I've ever seen NA is 370ish at the tires. Which puts it about 420 engine hp at a 6000rpm redline. Still about 80 hp short. But the torque was about 370 also which is thumping for a small bore, low rpm 302.

I agree its a powerful engine, I wonder what kind of compression they use and what kind of fuel they used to get it there. Lots of questions and I'm sure they won't be too willing to give up some secrets they have....
Anyways good luck
-bix