new:
rods, pistons, valves, valve springs, titainium retainers, main studs, head studs,
rocker arms, cams, piston rings, billit steel crank, aluminium flywheel,
those should get you to around 8500+


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2000 ZX3 Kona edt. 5spd.
Mods: adj cam gears, udp, vibrant exhaust, diablo sport chip, B&M sts, Dragon Weapon intake

 

So pretty much a new engined then yeah?

 

CableSrv, are you sure those all have to be replaced to achieve 8000rpm, or did you just make a list of cool aftermarket parts.

Whats wrong with the stock flywheel for example? Its big and heavy and should hold up fine. Are the pistons too heavy or unable to form a good seal at that RPM?

 

Why?

 

Ducman what I think CableSrv is trying to say is that its the SAFE way to rev to 8000... one time I'm sure wouldn't hurt it stock. but 8000 all the time would blow the stock pistons through the hood... imagine driving full blast down the highway as your 3rd cylinder piston blasts through and kills some old lady with a shopping cart full of cans... wait never mind... safety first I always say

------------------
Son do you know how fast you were goin?
I guess maybe 80...90...
12 MPH!!! Are you on Drugs?

 

Definately need rods. The tensile loads at those rpm's are enormous. The stock pistons "might" live at those rev's but it's not a good idea, plus forged aluminum pistons will be lighter, putting less stress in the rods and crank. The crank might be OK if it's lightened/balanced etc... but again, a billet or forgred piece is really the only way to go for reliability reasons. The stock valvetrain would definately have to go also. Cams that can make power WAAAY up there, quality (crower)springs, retainers, and large, high strength valves are a must. Thats all for durability, to make it work right a high flow intake manifold and exhaust would also be required, and probably have to custom fabbed. Fuel system, ignition, and standalone fuel injection would be required. Also major headwork, a modded SVT head would be a good solution. Also, some sort of main journal reinforcemnt to prevent crank walk at elevated rev's. As for the flywheel, the stocker might hold up, but if it let go at 8500 rpm it would like chew you're car up, or kill you. A billet piece would be a good safety measure. So basically everything would have to be replaced except for the block would have to go, and then some other custom junk.

 

drop a b16 in. should not be any more complicated than that

 

Well all I'm saying is how can you claim MUST this and MUST that when we really have no information whatsoever. Does anyone know what the tensile load on the rods are at 6750rpm, and what the maximum rating for the rods are for example? Ditto on the pistons. Has anyone had problems with the crank at high RPMs before? Without some specifications or experimenting, I don't think we can really say for sure what is the most limiting factor on the Zetec engine. Granted 8K rpm is a damn high revving engine, but I wouldn't attempt it unless you know what to replace or modify... unless you simply replace everything which would be extremely expensive. My answer... No clue.

You know who I WOULD ask though... FR200 developement team! I'm sure they discovered quite a bit about the various weak points of the engine.

Has anyone heard for example what the FIRST thing to go would be on the Zetec? The weakest link in the chain?

[This message has been edited by Ducman69 (edited 10-21-2001).]

 

A much better question is WHY rev it to 8000 rpm? If you are not providing a cam and intake manifold combo that takes advantage of a near 8000 rpm power peak, why rev it that high? Most of the cams available now sign off before 7000 rpm so you are wasting your time by reving it higher.

------------------
ZX3Racing
Best ET: 14.76 @ 91.6
Naturally Aspirated

 

I saw an Esllinger developed engine that was claimed to rev to 8500 but it didnt go into detail as to how, just wondering what was involved. Also I must admit I do like the Honda engines. I didnt think it was possible to fit a B16 into the Focus due to the manifolds being located in the wrong position

 

I would assume that if you take some race cams and combine that with other headwork and other modifications, that you could tune just about any engine to favor high RPMs.. no?

This I believe is just with the Kent cams. Improve flow (likely trade off low end unfortunately), and I could see it pulling hard to a super high redline.

If you DO NOT have or plan on having these mods, then we've clearly learned that even the stock 6750rpm redline is higher than the optimal shift point.

 

why would you drop rice into your foci engine bay? Gee I wish I had to rev my engine out for torque... B16... if you're gonna go through the trouble of installing custom motor mounts and axles... H22A DOHC VTEC... Prelude motor... F that civic wannabe crap... What do ya'll think?

------------------
Son do you know how fast you were goin?
I guess maybe 80...90...
12 MPH!!! Are you on Drugs?

 

Ducman, you are absulutely correct, there are probably very few people who know how much RPM the stock engine can handle. It would be my guess though that any kind of prolonged running at those RPM levels would grenade the motor in short order. The focus engine was made is inexpensively as possible; powdered metal rods, cast crank, and hyperutectic (sp?) pistons. That's not exactly a recipe for high RPM durability. An even better question would be why, that would be a strictly drag race motor.

 

I would think that these people: www.dunnell.co.uk
would know about high revving zetec engines.

It is an interesting site, 200+ bhp from a n/a 2.0l zetec is pretty impressive, though this is strictly for race engines with no cat.

 

so would www.raceline.co.uk (but those are 250+ N/A Zetecs for Caterham 7's

)

Even if the stock pistons, crank, connecting rods and mains could manage to hold together at 8000 RPM without shelling, it would never make it that far because the valve springs aren't strong enough. I've read that a 2.0 Zetec will float it's valves around 7250-7500 anyways. At that point, the valves don't close, the engine loses compression, and you've encountered the "Valve Float Redline" where even if your engine can handle going faster, it won't.

"Back in the day" the cool thing to do after cams that shifted the power band way up was to put stiffer valve springs in so you could get your engine revved high enough to take advantage of it.

 

There isnt really any of the Ford vs Honda scene going on here in the UK so I wouldnt using a Honda unit wouldnt be a problem. The main reason for this topic is down to the way I drive. Around where I live there are lots of whats referred to as A and B roads. These are hardly used and tend to be very unpredictable in nature i.e. variety of bends, undulating drive heights areas where you can get airborne! To take full advantage of these you need to keep your car high in the rev range so what I was getting at was what would I need to get a car that could reve high and generate power there. Perhaps I should just trade and get a type R.

 

Not arguing with stuff needing to be replaced. Just questioning where to start and what needs to be done. The obvious answer is replace every single component in the engine, but thats not very economical.

Well the Focus should be making power, with raising the redline a bit to help out in gearing as a plus. You can always fit a CSVT final drive to help in gearing as well, you'll just have to factor in the extra shift times and 5th gear cruise RPM.

If you can get a Focus to pull hard ALL the way to 7300rpm, it should still be very quick. Or... *coughturbocough* and shift at 6200rpm.

 

I don't think you are aiming for the right thing, the best way to rake around the back roads is to have plenty of power available throughout the rev range (like RS focus). A civic type-r comes on song at around 5500rpm, this is why the type-r has few issues with torque steer and wheelspin, real power isn't available until the car is already going quite fast. The ST170 focus will have 30hp less than the civic but will probably end up being as fast in a point to point situation due to it being less "top-endy".

However, if you want to trade in the focus for an acre of black plastic, a funky gearstick and less spec than a base model civic then I feel that there is little that can be done to save you now

 

I believe the SVT Focus redlines at 7500 +/- and all they had to do to the engine internals was to add stronger rods.



------------------
-Riceman

'00 ZX3: FS CAI, FS Wires, Kent Cams Adj. Cam Gears, AFX UDP, Superchip, Borla Exhaust, Eibach Pro-Kit, Eibach Anti-Sway Bars, Energy Suspension Master Kit, Koni Yellows, OZ Superlegerras w/ Pirelli PZero Assymetricos, B&M Shift Kit, and MOMO Pedals.
Stage III Aerocharger, Quaife differential, and Sachs clutch on the way!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RiceGrinder:
why would you drop rice into your foci engine bay? Gee I wish I had to rev my engine out for torque... B16... if you're gonna go through the trouble of installing custom motor mounts and axles... H22A DOHC VTEC... Prelude motor... F that civic wannabe crap... What do ya'll think?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because a few (read a lot!!!) kids do rice things doesn't make honda rice...

Honda is a marvel of wonder at high rpm engines... S2000, need I say more...

9000 rpm baby

[This message has been edited by DallasZX3 (edited 10-22-2001).]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cabinet Enforcer:
I don't think you are aiming for the right thing, the best way to rake around the back roads is to have plenty of power available throughout the rev range (like RS focus). A civic type-r comes on song at around 5500rpm, this is why the type-r has few issues with torque steer and wheelspin, real power isn't available until the car is already going quite fast. The ST170 focus will have 30hp less than the civic but will probably end up being as fast in a point to point situation due to it being less "top-endy".

However, if you want to trade in the focus for an acre of black plastic, a funky gearstick and less spec than a base model civic then I feel that there is little that can be done to save you now

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not to metion 6 speed close ratio box, four pot brakes, recaro sets, class leading handling (yes,it is said to be better than the focus in Type R form. Jeremy Clarkson (UK Journo) said that it almost grips as well as the new Imprezza) LSD (free drugs, they'll do anything to shift cars

), 17 inch alloys, bodykit, Honda's rock solid residuals against the *cough* not so good *cough* ford residuals, Hondas reliability and warranty, sub 16K price (you get a lot for your cash) plus its built in the UK!



[This message has been edited by JMcQueen (edited 10-23-2001).]

 

Why go changing the entire characteristics of your powerband? I love the low end torque of my ZX3... likewise, I love to shift as close as I can to my rev-limiter (9000rpm) in my S2000... different cars, entirely different engines...

------------------
-2001 100% Zinc H&R Eibach ZX3 ...Finally HERE!!
-2000 Highly modified Silver/Red Honda S2000

 

I don't think 8K is that far, mine hits 7K with no chip, i know it's odd, ask a couple of the greatlakes guys they can confirm... but my point is ford gave it to me like this which leads me to believe that there is some degree of safety in going a little bit further...

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Black ZX3, focussport exhaust, aem short ram, ported throttle body, esslinger UDP, H&R cup kit, focussport stress bar, silver painted stock grills, Borbet Type T Rims, B&M Short Shifter, MOMO knob, Interrior Paint, custom headlights

 

Is it really hitting 7K? Did you confirm it with the digital readout? I hear a lot of people have inaccurate gauges (some read lower, some higher). Its a lot more likely the needles are slightly crooked on some than the chips are programmed differently. The digital readout should be hyperaccurate though.

[This message has been edited by Ducman69 (edited 10-23-2001).]

 

Ducman69 is correct.... My tach also reads 7000RPM when the rev limiter kicks in, but it's actually around 6700RPM. 6750RPM I think is what it actually is.

Also, in order to get any benefit of having the car redline at 7500+ RPM, you're going to have to replace the cams, rework the intake (new manifold, bigger MAF sensor), probably install 24lb/hr. injectors, and get good port and polish job to improve air flow. Otherwise, you're going make less power than at 5800RPM and defeating the purpose of reving to 8000RPM in the first place.

------------------
-Riceman

'00 ZX3: FS CAI, FS Wires, Kent Cams Adj. Cam Gears, AFX UDP, Superchip, Borla Exhaust, Eibach Pro-Kit Springs, Eibach Anti-Sway Bars, Energy Suspension Master Kit, Koni Yellows, OZ Superlegerras w/ Pirelli PZero Assymetricos, B&M Shift Kit, and MOMO Pedals.
Stage III Aerocharger, Quaife differential, and Sachs clutch on the way!

[This message has been edited by riceman (edited 10-23-2001).]