[Welding Rod]

Over the last 4 + years I have grown quite fond of my turbo ZX3 and may end up keeping it for quite some time. So in consideration of possible future plans which may include a low compression longblock and a GT28RS, GT2871R, GT3071R-WG, or ? .......

What size injectors will comfortably handle 300 WHP? Would a "driver" be required?

At what power level do fuel delivery mods, lines, pump, etc, first become required? What would be required at 300 WHP, 325 WHP?

John / Fastrax I would value your input on this.

 

[Welding Rod]

I don't know if I would go all the way to 300 or not. Close study of some dyno charts shows a pretty significant increase in lag once going bigger than the GT28RS... and this is a (caged & gutted

) daily driver street car. I have to think on it some more.

I plan to max out my current GT28R based system with soon to come 3" turbo back. I want to have some long term plans figured ahead of time as I replace components, and in case the OEM long block gives up.

A new radiator is on the list, even with my current setup.

 

[Welding Rod]

Lee - Thanks for the link.

Do we use low or high resistance fuel injectors?

Are there something like 70-72 lb hour / 750 cc minute Ford injectors available that will work without a driver? Or would I need to go to something like RCI?

 

[Welding Rod]

According to ATP, the R is good to 290, and the RS good to 350... this would have to be crank. I have the R, not the RS, but there is a good chance I will be going to the RS.

What power level are you at where fuel pressure drop starts to become a problem?

 

[Welding Rod]

What are guys in this range doing for cooling... ie radiators?

My ECT currently gets upto the low 230s quickly under max load. I will be fabricating some ducting this summer that may help quite a bit with that by preventing air from spilling downward before the IC, and from between the IC and radiator.... we'll see.

Anyone tried Fluidyne? I have some questions into them right now.

What about an SVT radiator? Are they an improvement on ours, or the same? Anyone try one?

Bela - Don't you have an aftermarket rad? What kind? How is it different that stock .... thicker? ... more passage ways?

 

[Welding Rod]

I run my car with the stock radiator and with an estimated 280whp and haven't had any cooling concerns. Actually, I haven't heard of anyone have a cooling issues on the focus. I do run a 180 thermostat and my fans come on really early aswell.

Scott

What kind of ECT do you see at extended WOT in higher gears?

 

[Welding Rod]

P - I am aware that ECT is actually a head temp sensor, but nonetheless that is the data the ECU uses for timing modifications and that is the number I monitor while driving... and once you hit the mid 230s timing starts getting jerked pretty hard... I could change that, but since I have no instrumented data with which to intelligently do so, like with many things in my tune I defer to the expertise of the Ford engineers and leave it OEM.

My cooling system gets a bit of a work out as the IC impedes flow some, and my turbo centersection adds a fair amount of heat into the system as well.

I just got some info from Fluidyne... their radiator is about twice as thick as OEM, with about half of that added to the rear surface and half to the front. I don't think that would work for me as the fan would probably end up to close to the turbo.

I may have already mentioned I plan to fabricate some ducting in the next several weeks, after compeleting my new down pipe, to prevent air from spilling downward before reaching the rad. I will include a small splitter to protrude out past the front of the IC. We'll see what effect this may have before doing anything else... it just may make a big difference.

I would like to have enough cooling ability to run the OEM thermostat, and not rely on boost spurts being short enough to prevent bringing the (normally colder than necessary) temp up to above where I want it. I would like to run the car on a road course once in a while in the future.

"I'm also kinda surprised to hear you want MORE power Rod. How fast do you want to go?"

You kidding?

FASTER!!!

Really though it is hard to apply all I got most of the time, but some/more in reserve for "emergencies" is comforting. ... And my car works so well now with great power, drivability, and economy, I haven't really had anything to play with lately... no big project in the works here, just planning ahead so any effort will slowly work toward a focused outcome.

 

[Welding Rod]

Stock brakes, well with Brembo standard rotors and HPS pads... the only thing I have working in my favor brake wise is the car is reasonably light and the tire OD is short. In anycase beefier brakes would be a very worthwhile addition.

 

[Welding Rod]

ZX3focusguy - never break 200?

That is incredible... I must say almost unbelievable... the several guys that have reported ECTs on their ZX3s here, as far I can remember, have all reported 230F range temps at extended WOT, same as me. Is that actual coolant temp from an aftermarket guage, or "ECT" as reported by the ECU / OBD port? Do you have a vented hood or some other means of increased cooling?

Bela - Didn't you have data logs of ECTs from several cars? Including a ZX3 with a vented hood?

Jeffro03 - Besides pistons and rods, what else have you done to the short block? Main caps? Bolts/studs? From what source?

 

[Welding Rod]

Did McNews build your block, or did you just buy the parts from them have someone else do the machining / assembly?

Also, haven't you tried several different turbos now? If so, how about a brief run down of what you have tried and your impressions of them?

 

[Welding Rod]

It looks like all GT28RS turbos have a 60mm compressor wheel, 62 trim, and .60 AR. The turbine has a 53.85 wheel and 76 trim.

I see that there are two turbine ARs to choose from though... either .64 or .86. I think, but am not sure, that ATP uses the add-on GT28RS - "QS", as in "Quick Spool", for the .64... at least that was what one or two of their dyno plots had on them and that is my best guess.

It appears like the .64 version gets choked at higher RPM, and has a big early spike in torque output in the midrange. The .86 looks like a more desireable overall output... but graphs that differentiate between turbine AR on the RS are darn hard to find.

Can anyone compare these two turbine ARs to one another? Or maybe have a graph or two of either one?

 

[Welding Rod]

P - You may be on to something... I was just out driving and thought to myself I must be smoking some cheap [censored] to think I need more power. This thing drives so good right now I can barely stand it. Throttle response and low-mid RPM torque is insane... and that was what was really keeping me smiling and laughing when I was hammering on it. I think I would regret giving up either.

Dang what to do. I came really close to ordering a turbo, injectors, and MAF last night too.

Maybe I should just do the injectors and MAF and see what I can get out of my "R" with the soon to come 3" turbo back system for now... dialing those in would keep me busy for a while.... or maybe the "RS-QS".....

 

[Welding Rod]

I'm kind of thinking that way now.

Anybody do any testing with an without an aftermarket throttle body when in the 200+ range? I still have stubbornly been sticking with the stocker since the aftermarket, in their usualy half-assed manner, can't seem to make one to OE standards. Any significant gains to be made there when at the mid-200s power level?

 

[Welding Rod]

Ah hell P, my intake is already beautiful, my 3" exhaust components are supposed to be here tomorrow, and I just found out today that I got underpaid about $1,000 this year....

so

... do the SVT and Zetec share the same main caps?

 

[Welding Rod]

Haha, very true... I post then proof read a bit later as I typo and omit words frequently ... then I edit, sometimes adding stuff like I just did above. Wouldn't want to appear illiterate you know.

On the more pertinent note, what about them? In bang for the buck when running turbo'd FI at moderate levels, they come in pretty low on the priority list no?

 

[Welding Rod]

I love the quality/type of output I get now... the torque, and then HP, output curves stay between 210 and 234 from 3,100 to 6,400 when I let off. Would be nice to move the whole shee-bang up about 30, or 40.... or 50.

 

[Welding Rod]

Well enough screwing around, I just talked to Joe at PTE.... one direct replacement GT28RS .86 AR on the way.

Now to order some bigger injectors and a Lightning MAF...

 

[Welding Rod]

I don't know what else I could do efficiency wise, other than a TB... the PTE intake tract and piping is very nicely done, and I am installing a 3" turbo to tailpipe, with no cheated bends (no AC compressor in the way)... speaking of that, that exhaust ain't cheap, I am pretty sure it came out to close to $1,000 for the parts by the time it all totaled up - ouch.

I went with the 90mm Lighnting MAF, and will discard the body and install the sensor in my 73mm intake tract... should be comfortable upto about 325-350 WHP with plenty of headroom, not that I plan to go that high.

I got to start saving up for phase 5(?) now... new long block. Hopefully the current one will last 'til next summer.

 

[Welding Rod]

Thanks Bela - I just might be interested in that radiator... any idea if it is bigger than the ZX3 version? and if it would be a drop in?

I am going to have a pile of parts to pedal myself... GT28R, 42 pound injectors, Borla exhaust, FS flex, etc, etc.....

I'll have to get a digital camera and get on ebay.

Those big turbos would be fun to try, but I just ordered the GT28RS this afternoon, so no more new turbos for a while!

 

[Welding Rod]

Well thanks anyhow Bela.

Change of plans... new turbo is now not coming... I thought the RS could be done as a direct bolt in, but PTE just called back prior to shipping and let me know something about the RS using a 3" compressor inlet instead of the bell inlet, and the WG actuator needing a custom bracket fabbed up in order to fit and clear...evidently the custom fabbed one they supply with the R won't work due to mounting hole location differences after clocking.

Neither are a big deal, but my plate is full of fab projects for the time being... mount & wire new gauges, permanently mount Safeguard (finally!), complete exhaust, relocate my oil return pump due to larger OD down pipe, tune new larger MAF and injectors, fab ducting and splitter for radiator and IC, fab new alumium seat mount brackets, finally complete interior work in car after gutting 4 years ago, etc...

So anyhow I just said to cancel and will be trying to max out the GT28R instead for the next couple months.

Sorry to those that were eager to see the results.