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Discussion Starter #1
Pretty straight foward...are there any? Looking at the H&R front for my SVT, only because it would come packaged with the rear. Thanks...


CCC
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Less body roll, better turn-in.

But I'm sure at least 10 people will chime in saying "Don't put a bigger front sway bar on, are you stupid?!"

Thats all I've ever heard...thats why I asked. In combination with a larger rear will the car become a bit more neutral? I guess I coul just buy it and find out myself.


CCC
 

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Don't Call Me Gaga!
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Carl listed it: Less body roll, and better turn-in.... helps loss of camber.

The negative would be a bit more inside wheelspin.

I run the H&R front on the soft setting, and the H&R rear.

With 2.7/1.1 degrees of negative camber F/R, it seems to be well balanced on race rubber.
 

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The idea is that bars are a "tuning" tool, not a always good and always bad type of thing.

Bars and harsher spring rates do the same thing. Decrease body roll. They both have draw backs. If you want less body roll with a softer ride, then use a bar, unfortunately your decreasing the independance of your suspension and as Omni stated, you'll see more inside wheel spin, and without an LSD, that could really hurt ya.

Harsher spring rates will do the same thing, but they will allow the suspension to keep it's independance (keeping both tires on the ground). The downside, is the ride quality. And just FYI... a stiffer front means more rear grip, a stiffer rear means more front grip. So an overly stiff front will probably add understeer. An overly stiff rear will add oversteer.

So whether or not you want to run a front bar should be based on where you want to be with regard to the points listed above. You make compromises either way.
 

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Good points. Remember stiff end resists direction change.
As mentioned, from a history perspective, heavy springs were used to reduce roll, then along came "swaybars" and you could run less spring. THEN swaybar and big springs had things handling like a goKart... Does anyone really want a 2500 lb goKart???
From everything I have read the past 10 years, current thinking is stiff bars with softer springs to keep all 4 wheels on the ground. Softer lets wheels follow dips and humps rather than fly over them, bigger bars reduce roll.
Main thing! MATCHED bars front and back. Bigger front with same old rear will increase understeer, make car less fun to drive, as you have to let off, transfer weight to front and then turn. Yin Yang, grasshopper.
 

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2600 lb go kart..we have one dave..and tomorrow its on the way to vir
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The idea is that bars are a "tuning" tool, not a always good and always bad type of thing.

Bars and harsher spring rates do the same thing. Decrease body roll. They both have draw backs. If you want less body roll with a softer ride, then use a bar, unfortunately your decreasing the independance of your suspension and as Omni stated, you'll see more inside wheel spin, and without an LSD, that could really hurt ya.

Harsher spring rates will do the same thing, but they will allow the suspension to keep it's independance (keeping both tires on the ground). The downside, is the ride quality. And just FYI... a stiffer front means more rear grip, a stiffer rear means more front grip. So an overly stiff front will probably add understeer. An overly stiff rear will add oversteer.

So whether or not you want to run a front bar should be based on where you want to be with regard to the points listed above. You make compromises either way.
I notice that alot of people say stuff just like that using the qualifier "overly" or "too much", but I'm assuming there is no easy way to know when you're on that fine line, without going over it. Thats the hidden nature of my question...would H&R front & rear sway bars along with my H&R coilovers send the car in the understeer,neutral or oversteer direction.

For example, just putting the rear on and disconnecting my stock front would have pretty obvious effects, just trying to resolve that gray area in between, because I definitely would like the car to rotate easier, but not come flying out from behind me whenever I let of the gas too fast. Right now its solid, only really understeering when pushed too hard (for the tires, anyway...damn I'd love some Rs), but I really have to try hard to get the thing a bit loose. I think it will be even harder now that I have full tread Kooks on all four corners. Thanks guys & gals...


CCC
 

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Don't Call Me Gaga!
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I'll put it this way... right after I installed my current setup, I went to a track day the next weekend. (H&R bars F/R, H&R race, lots of front camber)

I was expecting to have to drive around some understeer... instead I spent the first few laps getting used to keeping the tail behind me in the sweeper entries as the tires warmed up.

The problem with defining the "fine line" is that it varies per driver. You pretty much have to buy something that somebody else has tried and liked, or try something new to see how it works.

There are so many aftermarket suspension parts out there for a Focus that I firmly believe that there will never be an "ultimate" setup.... just a bunch of really good setups that work well for a given driver.
 

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Well remember, that it has alot to do with the weight of the car. Because it's all about weight transfer and trying to minimize it. So for anyone to say what you should run on your car is difficult. The H&R bars were not made in conjuction with their coilovers so dont expect them to work as a unit.

The H&R bars are both 24mm and personally I like the smaller bar in front. I have a very neutral handling focus (ask Omni). It just goes where you point it. If I want to dial in some oversteer, I can raise the rear and so on.

With coilovers you add a 3rd dimension into handling (ride height and F/R weight balance). So overly will depend on what your car is doing right now. If your car as it sits today suffers from massive understeer, and you put a thicker front bar, then you will have an "overly" stiff front because you just increased your understeer. The terms "overly" or "too much" is all subject to the car it's on and the driver in it. I know you want a black and white answer, it's just not that simple.

Best choice is drive your car, and find out what it's doing!! Fix the problems, dont change suspension parts without knowing what dirction the new part is going to send ya
 

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Don't Call Me Gaga!
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Excellent advice.

I was just going to mention your car... When you lift off, the tail stays planted, yet when you get on the gas, the nose goes where it belongs. (Or at least it did before you added 100 horses.
)

A setup worth copying, I feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thats exactly why i wanted to eliminate that 3rd dimension (my coilover vs. Koni setup thread) because i can't take it all into account and actually adjust accordingly...well not easily anyway. But as you said I'm going to try and see what the car is doing, now that I have some new tires and go from there. But more than likely i'll be ditching the coilovers for some adjustable dampers and springs. Thanks.


CCC
 

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Good point, Omni.
I've said it before, if you deal with a company like H&R, they have engineers that make big bucks making sure they put together packages that enhance handling. Ok, maybe not BIG bucks, but I hear they get all the virgins they can handle. Moving on.
Remember fine tuning can be adjusted with tire pressures. Mixing bars is not a great idea, but can be done. Matched sets are the way to go.
Also remember an autox setup that seems great, is scary as heck on a roadcourse.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I need to find a way to get more time behind the wheel in an environment where I can push the car and find out more the handling characteristics. I just can't do all that much once a week maybe twice a month...just not enough time. Whats a guy to do?


CCC
 

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Don't Call Me Gaga!
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You just gotta sign up for as many autocrosses and track days as you can. You can learn a startling amount in just a few runs, especially if you ride along with a good mentor... best if they can co-drive your own car.
 

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And don't just concentrate on your region. Plan trips out of region. You pick up alot more with different drivers around... some good some bad. But you still learn!
 
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