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I pray spooky performance NEVER stops coming. Now being of sound thought and mind (during some points of the day), I am one who probably cannot handle the responsibility that kind of power brings.

But nevertheless it is impressive to look at.
At Sonic last night, there was a neon SRT-4 scooting around, and it just stabbed the gas real quick, and TOOK OFF! Those things are scary fast.
 

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Don't Call Me Gaga!
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Spooky is the best way of describing it... Of course what scares me is the thought of pickup trucks capable of high 4/low 5 second 0-60 blasts... I mean GEEEZZ!! I don't mind the trucks, but I just hope that the people that get a hold of them are responsible with them.

Originally posted by belacyrf:
I am one who probably cannot handle the responsibility that kind of power brings.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me either. My Focus keeps me in check fairly well... But every time I return the keys to somebody else's fast car I just give a sigh of relief that I didn't pick up any tickets.
 

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I could handle the responsibility as well as I ever do...

I would LOVE a car that Stomped at least as well as the '69 Mustang that I grew up in, with Modern Handling and Braking.
 

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Belcyrf and Omni both have a commendable point about responsibility. As for the performance cars, I tend to get initially excited and usually am disappointed. High top speeds don't impress me and 0-60 times inevitably will come down (and as one person on /. wrote, paraphrased, "You want speed, get a motorcycle."). Mainly what I want is a quick, light, car with terrific handling that doesn't come from a whole bunch of electronic wizardry. As much as performance is being pushed, lard is being pushed, too. It's like car makers don't realize that for the same weight to hp ratio, a lighter car will be better; not just better handling, but will take less gas and be safer for others in a car crash.

I personally find the current performance car market utterly disappointing. I hope once the Elise is here that other makers will get the message. I can only imagine what it'll do in the autocross scene; my guess is that it'll be in super stock in SCCA and it will still kick ass, though it depends on the final specs. If the Elise doesn't send a message it seems like the only other possible source in the market for light sports cars will be from Toyota (and possibly the Miata). If only Toyota would flip the drivetrain on the Celica or add FI to the MR2.
 

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Originally posted by proxemac:
I personally find the current performance car market utterly disappointing.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I personally find the current performance car market really exciting! Think back to 1994-1997 when sports cars were dropping like flies. The coolest thing on the market was a 2400lb 150hp Neon. Ford had a Mustang that wasn't anything to write home about... and the Escort was a doomed platform at best.

I mean.. We've got the Focus and a new Mustang chassis around the corner. Toyota has a semi-sporty five door hatch, a lightweight MR Spyder, and a decent little revin' Celica. Honda has an awesome little roadster with technology up the ying-yang.. and a decent hatch. Nissan has gone nuts lately with a revival of the 350Z... and a couple decent sports sedans... Not to mention the revival of the Infiniti side of the brand. Lexus has the IS300.. Chrysler has the SRT-4.. Ugly or not, it is an amazing offering. Mazda's Zoom-zoom is real... The 6 is a geniune sports sedan with a no-compromise suspension. The Mazdaspeed protege is wonderful and the Miata is as good as ever.. The RX8 is destined to be loved by a few people... I could keep going!

I dunno.. I just keep seeing things get better and better!
 

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So where do you guys see this spooky performance progressing? How much faster can cars get?

IMO this is spelling the end of the gasoline engine. Its hitting its peak, and there's not too much more it can do.
 

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Originally posted by proxemac:
"You want speed, get a motorcycle.").

I personally find the current performance car market utterly disappointing.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can only surmise from your other comments that you are dissappointed about the lack of simple and lightweight performance cars. and that I agree.....we do need to note that that '70 911RS didn't have a NHTSA or EPA to deal with, and wizardry aside.....that is the primary reason for the weight thing.

Believe me I agree with you......the Focus is the first car I've autocrossed over 2200lbs so EVERYTHING seems like a boat to me.

but the motorcycle argument in tired.....sorry, bikes are of course, spooky fast, but the accessability of their speed is there but for a few talented riders.......where alot of us weekend motorsports guys can really flirt with the auto "edge" pretty darn easy thanks to these great cars.

and that '69 Mustang Michael? As much a memory tends to embellish, the plain truth is it would see the taillights of dozens of cars that would flirt with 30mpg on the highway........these are brilliant times aren't they.

I can't believe my "quick" little modded Focus....is probably slower than the new car total average acceleration now.......just insane...
 

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Ive been thinking about this since the 03' Cobra hit showrooms. I highly doubt that even 50% of the 03' Cobra drivers are "qualified" to pilot a low 12 second car. Im a big supporter of speed and fast cars but sooner or later someone is going to have to step in and say enough is enough. Not only are cars becoming faster, they are becoming heavier, more stable, and attain high speeds with such ease and lack of n.v.h. that pretty much any 80 year old woman feels confident piloting her land yacht over 100 mph. This makes for a deadly combination if you ask me. Japan has attempted to put a limit on HP for its vehicles, i can only hope if America adopts this idea it will be based on power/weight. I mean, really, do you want to be on the streets when 16 year old johnny takes out his moms 500 hp 08' twin turbo V6 Nissan Quest? I dont.
 

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stomp a 69 Mustang? Now that is scary as in scary brakes, scary narrow, slick tires, scary handling. The only thing the 60's cars had was a monster motor that got bad mileage.

I know, I have a '66 Chevelle SS-396 sitting in the garage.

One of the Mustang mags this month compares an original Mustang Mach I with a 428 to a new Mach I and it's not pretty for the old car.

Couldn't match the e.t. or mph of the new car. Don't even talk about the handling.

We are lucky there are so many performance cars to be had.

Just yesterday I say a Mercedes-Benz S600 sedan with a V12 engine. Talk about a sleeper monster. You better leave your mom's car at home and bring your race car if you go up against that one.
 

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All these nice cars.
I wouldn't know what to do with all that HP. (Or how to control it either)

The SRT is pretty bad, but...
My friend went on a "spirited run" in his, and was pretty PO'd when a stock V6 Accord owned him.


[ 04-30-2003, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: Ozmotear ]
 

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Originally posted by Ozmotear:
All these nice cars.
I wouldn't know what to do with all that HP. (Or how to control it either)

The SRT is pretty bad, but...
My friend went on a "spirited run" in his, and was pretty PO'd when a stock V6 Accord owned him.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Better put your flame resistance suit on!


Well, as long this world still dominated by human, we will have faster cars. To go faster is just our nature.
 

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I normally don't gush over the mags, but between the latest C&D and the new Motor Trend, the performance hardware available now just flat out boggles the mind.
It begs the question, who can, or should be driving these things? and where will it end?

Motor Trend random tidbits-
Speed Test
-An AMG CL55k's "second" speed limiter is at 187mph

-no less than three cars get to 60mph in the three second range!
-the EVO is the REAL DEAL bold and capitalized.......and much to the possible chagrin of Sooby Sti fans.....it's going to be a completely even performance battle between them

-Love it or hate it......that friggin' Neon can run in the 13's right out of the wrapper. Personally, I think it's probably the most dangerous car available........I think I really do want one


[ 04-30-2003, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: ZXmurph ]
 

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Originally posted by ZXmurph:
I can only surmise from your other comments that you are dissappointed about the lack of simple and lightweight performance cars. and that I agree.....we do need to note that that '70 911RS didn't have a NHTSA or EPA to deal with, and wizardry aside.....that is the primary reason for the weight thing.

Believe me I agree with you......the Focus is the first car I've autocrossed over 2200lbs so EVERYTHING seems like a boat to me.

but the motorcycle argument in tired.....sorry, bikes are of course, spooky fast, but the accessability of their speed is there but for a few talented riders.......where alot of us weekend motorsports guys can really flirt with the auto "edge" pretty darn easy thanks to these great cars.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you pretty much read me correctly. I wasn't being too serious about the motorcycle comment; it's just a rejoinder someone tossed at me when discussing how fast 0-60 times are getting in cars. I don't even want to think about going top speed on a motorcycle.

The fact that most sports cars are now pushing 3000+ lbs. is what inspired me to say I'm disappointed in the current market*. For instance, I heavily anticipated the 350Z and then finally saw the weight it pushes and I was dumbfounded. Why build a two seat sports car with a somewhat compromised trunk space and then make it so heavy? I don't think cats or crash tests can really be to blame, otherwise there wouldn't be any sub-2500 pound cars. My guess is that weight comes in further towards the end of the design process for nearly all current sports cars and is treated with more of a damage control type of attitude than as a main design goal. Another possibility is that car makers simply design their sports cars to be overweight from the start.

We are moving towards heavier and heavier cars, where simply maintaining your current 3000+ lbs. weight is considered an accomplishment. I believe at this point the Miata, Celica and MR-S are the only sporty cars left under 2700 lbs., at least until you get to supercars like the 360 Challenge. Eventually, though, trends like this reverse themselves or help kill off the market, a la '94-'97 (although currency rates apparently had a big influence, too). I'd much rather see the trend reverse itself than end, so that we end up with lighter, more nimble sports cars.

* Your point about being "simple" also fits my opinions, although with the rant I could make about unneeded reliance on technology (I'm a programmer, btw) I'll save it for a separate topic some day.
 

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I'm in synch with most of you here.

I find it pretty amazing that today I can own an "economy car" that bests a Mustang Shelby GT350 in every performance category, handling, braking, acceleration even, while getting 28MPG, driving in air conditioned comfort, listening to my 200 Watt stereo, with a Washing Machine loaded in the back.

That's pretty amazing.

But on the flip side, I'm NOT impressed by MOST of the current "performance cars" being offered.

Most of them are overweight. Period.

Anything over 3000 lbs, isn't a "sports car" IMHO. I'm actually somewhat disapointed with the WRX STI because it weighs about 3300 lbs. That's pretty crazy. Everybody drools about the 300hp, saying it's the best Impreza ever. I'd rather have a 1996 or whatever WRX with 2600lbs and 280hp thank you very much.

Everybody drools over the Mustang Cobra, because it has 390hp. What's it weigh? 3700lbs? 3800? I'd only need 270hp in my Focus to match it. So what's the big deal about the Cobra?

I mean, I guess I have mixed feelings. I'm very happy that the car makers are putting an emphasis on performance. I'd rather everybody drove a Cobra, than everybody driving a Navigator.

But non of these "performance" cars excite me very much, because they're so damn heavy! And then there's the cost. I could never justify spending $30-50,000 on such a beast. I honestly don't understand how many people can afford the cars. We're in the 90-95 percentile of household income in Canada, and we own two Focuses. I just don't know how people buy these things. So cars like Cobras, STIs, Z06's... just don't do anything. They're too expensive, and just don't offer as much performance as they'd have you believe.

That's probably what I find so appealing about the idea of building a Locost. It completely bucks the trend. It's cheap, and light, and simple, yet will completely destroy ANYTHING in production.
 

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spooky performance is cool but,
i'm still waiting for a car that seats 5 comfortably, has room for my dining room table when the back seats are down, has great handling, run 14s in the quarter and get 35 mpg on the highway.
 

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Originally posted by P-51:
I find it pretty amazing that today I can own an "economy car" that bests a Mustang Shelby GT350 in every performance category, handling, braking, acceleration even, while getting 28MPG, driving in air conditioned comfort, listening to my 200 Watt stereo, with a Washing Machine loaded in the back.

That's pretty amazing.

But on the flip side, I'm NOT impressed by MOST of the current "performance cars" being offered.

Most of them are overweight. Period.

Everybody drools over the Mustang Cobra, because it has 390hp. What's it weigh? 3700lbs? 3800? I'd only need 270hp in my Focus to match it. So what's the big deal about the Cobra?

So cars like Cobras, STIs, Z06's... just don't do anything. They're too expensive, and just don't offer as much performance as they'd have you believe.

That's probably what I find so appealing about the idea of building a Locost. It completely bucks the trend. It's cheap, and light, and simple, yet will completely destroy ANYTHING in production.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Alright Rob, brother, now I'm really convinced you need a vacation....come out here we'll autocross, open track, and surf.......who else but you in ONE POST can point out that the good ol' days weren't as good as car fogies remember PLUS say the good days NOW aren't good enough.

Random thoughts-
First of all, I currently cannot name one of my car friends or aquaintances that drools over a Mustang Cobra. but you know that.

Yes, yes, yes, you and I know the cars are overweight.....but safety factors *both real and perceived* are there....and the market does indeed drive the rest of the weight up with features we hate. hate. hate. hate.

But cars capabilities don't lie. I don't even need to bring up GRMs Honda oddysey Mini-van spanking an E-type jag, and Porsche 356 on track.

Additionally, your complaint about car expense is....just.....not fair I guess. We have a "13 second" car available for 20k for god's sake! Outright performance per real dollar is obviously at an all-time low overall and we only need to look at one of the examples listed for the automotive cost/performance renaissance we are in ......the Z06 is currently available for $51k.....surely big money.....but ABSOLUTELY OWNS a ZR1 Corvette that MSRPd around 70k years ago .......

too expensive and not having the performance "they'd have me believe"????
who's they? wow......I don't know man........again,as an example I've had the pleasure of some hot laps driving a Z06 and can tell you that no one is telling some story about it and its motorsports results speak for themselves..........here is a car that I'm ASTOUNDED is only 50k.....and did I mention is got the same OR better mileage than my Focus on the trip home!!!!!!!
I also thought it interesting that Justin Bell was "blown away" by the Evo total performance. Here's a guy that use Z06's at his school and it certainly not on a Mitsubishi payroll to spew superlatives at us.

So I'm just saying give the OEMs some credit....the cars OVERALL capabilities AND refinement and PURE speed is amazing...and I love the analogy of the Sooby and Evo as the new ponycars- their real,near new supercar performance speaks for itself now, and embarasses yesterday's examples for relatively low cost

........of course our frame, with a seat, gumballs, and horsepower attached will be fast......we know, love, and will build that.
 
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