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i've never had a problem with cylinder #3, but what were the symptoms? i would like to know just in case it has happend and i didnt' know.
 

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Not trying to be mean or anything, but I have never heard of #3 going on any NA applications, which would be the extent of Ford's responsibility IMHO. I noticed your signature say's "boosted", my guess is the tune was off for your octane level and you got some detonation which killed #3, personally I'd be talking to the tuner rather then making this a Ford issue. Keep in mind the SVTF engine is sortuf known to be tough, for example there are several boosted SVTF's out there making 250-300whp on the stock engine internals and have been for quite a long time with no issues. Heck OrangeSVT03 is making 329whp on 93 octane with the stock engine right now at 19psi, but he's got a very dialed in tune to keep him safe as well.
 

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and sonic: no one is looking for Ford help here dude. We build these cars and accept what we do with them . we're just looking for answers. so please don't jump to conclusions OR challenge the tuning of his car.
Sorry I was just basing it off this comment in the original post:

We need to get Ford to have a look at these things...
Anyway if I recall reading other posts about this issue, #3 runs leaner then the other cylinders which means its more prone to detonation. It's also why people usually tap this cylinder for their EGT readings, that way they can tune for the worst cylinder. Just keep in mind engines usually don't pop due to boost pressure, they pop due to detonation. For example detonation can cause up to %1000 more pressure then a normal combustion cycle and peak at 18000 degrees F in the center of the combustion chamber, nothing can withstand that (FYI even inaudible detonation can be %100 more pressure then normal). Hence its not really "boost" that kills most engines, its detonation brought about by boost. Too much timing, too lean air/fuel ratio, high temperatures (ambient, IAT), inefficient intercoolers, or bad gas are all sources that can create detonation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If there is in fact a common flaw, the cylinder will eventually fail, boosted or not. Adding power has just made it fail sooner than if it were stock. And if that is the case, Ford should know about it.

with that said, we are rebuilding my car without Ford. We turbo'd it, and we accept the responsibility.

But for all those staying N/A, how would you like it if the flaw was there, and suddenly you all start having failures at 150,000 miles?
 

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If there is in fact a common flaw, the cylinder will eventually fail, boosted or not. Adding power has just made it fail sooner than if it were stock. And if that is the case, Ford should know about it.

with that said, we are rebuilding my car without Ford. We turbo'd it, and we accept the responsibility.

But for all those staying N/A, how would you like it if the flaw was there, and suddenly you all start having failures at 150,000 miles?
It all depends on your defintion of what a flaw is, IMHO I could take any engine out there today and find a "flaw" with it eventually if I were to push the power high enough. That does not mean that this "flaw" would show up under normal power levels and use however, and even if it did at 150k miles thats a pretty good run for a high performance engine. Heck my friends with GN's used to be happy to get 20k miles out of their build ups.

For a realistic example, when I had an 01 Lightning those guys were saying that Ford using powdered rods was an engine flaw that they needed to do a recall on. They were saying this because they were upping the boost pressure, adding in MORE timing then stock, and ending up popping a rod once they ran into some air temps that were different then the day they tuned it. Perhaps the powdered rods were not the best choice made by Ford, but plenty of Lightnings never popped a rod including some of those that were modded in a similar fashion (with more conservative tunes). How overbuilt should have Ford made the engines so that people don't think this is a flaw? The engines make ~340whp stock, most people were getting ~400whp safely on the stock engine, should Ford had given them 500whp capable longblocks?

Anyway sorry to hear about your misfortune and I hope you get it back up and running quick, but like they say, if you haven't blown at least one engine your not trying hard enough!
 

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All inline 4's have a "troublemaker" cylinder. Miata guys also blow #3. EVO guys blow #3. Protege guys blow #3. It has to do with the firing sequence, since there will always be one cylinder that has less cooling-off time than the others.

The way around that is to go to a boxer style 4 cylinder. ala Bug, Porsche, Subaru, etc. But then you deal with a different set of issues.
 

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i think it's bad that our engines were bone stock N/A for 1 year and cylinder #3 was already burning oil that was visible in the exhaust port. BEFORE the turbo. before anything .. before before.

i think what davan is getting at is all you n/a ppl who are enjoying the car in stock form. would you appreciate your motor dieing right after warranty because of this issue?

boosting our motors just pushed it over the edge quicker.
 

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How much oil was you burning before the turbo? Did you have to add oil before normal oil change intervals? Did you see blue smoke? Could you feel a power loss? If none of these are true, it does not really seem like a problem does it? That picture doesn't look that bad to me, but I am more used to 5.0L V-8's that typically use a quart of oil every 3000 miles.

Also nobody bone stock and NA has killed #3 that I am aware of yet (correct me if I am wrong), some SVTF's have upwards of 100k miles these days as well (powertrain warranty ends at 100k). So lets say there is an issue here with one cylinder being slightly less then par, if its not excessively using oil or otherwise failing under normal use then its not really an issue to Ford. Heck a different manafacturer might have given you an engine that did this sort of thing on all 4 cylinders.

Adding boost does speed up engine failure, there is no way around it, pressures and heat on everything is higher then what the components were originally designed to handle and air/fuel and timing requirements is totally different. This situation also brings about failures that would have never been seen had the engine not recieved boost, simply because the components were not designed to handle this sort of stress long term and its much easier for something to go wrong. Keep in mind just because our engine comes from the factory with components that have proven to take boost very well does not mean we should expect every car to always be able to handle the boost. It's not a feature of the car, anything the engine can handle beyond 170bhp is really just a free gift.

Bottom line is, even if there is a common problem here, it doesn't seem to be a real problem on stock SVTF's. Maybe at 100k, 250k, or 500k something will come from this problem on a stock SVTF, but that is well beyond Ford's scope of responsibility. Also just an FYI, I am saying this and at the same time I have a Vortech kit sitting in my garage waiting for me to decide if I want to install it or not. If I do, and the engine fails on #3, I'll still say the same things I am now. Now if I had left my car totally stock and it failed on #3 with anything less then 100k miles, well thats a totally different story.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Before the turbo went into my car, it was already burning oil. Yes, I had to add oil before my regular changes. It wasn't down enough to be a concern, but it was down. It only has 12,000 miles on it. That is way too few to be burning oil.

If there is a common problem here, we should let people know, and it should be addressed. That's all I'm saying.
 

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If there is in fact a common flaw, the cylinder will eventually fail, boosted or not. Adding power has just made it fail sooner than if it were stock. And if that is the case, Ford should know about it.

with that said, we are rebuilding my car without Ford. We turbo'd it, and we accept the responsibility.

But for all those staying N/A, how would you like it if the flaw was there, and suddenly you all start having failures at 150,000 miles?
150,000 miles is a fine time for an engine to die.
 

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wow it seems like ppl are hitting REPLY to posts way early in the thread without reading the thread . this thread should stop becuase it's entirely useless . and let's leave the svt enthustistiasts forum to more discussions of DSI and what kind of oil to run
 

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Before the turbo went into my car, it was already burning oil. Yes, I had to add oil before my regular changes. It wasn't down enough to be a concern, but it was down. It only has 12,000 miles on it. That is way too few to be burning oil.

If there is a common problem here, we should let people know, and it should be addressed. That's all I'm saying.
How much oil are we talking about? Every engine will burn some oil. The harder you drive it, the more will burn. Also, this depends on the oil you are using.

wow it seems like ppl are hitting REPLY to posts way early in the thread without reading the thread . this thread should stop becuase it's entirely useless . and let's leave the svt enthustistiasts forum to more discussions of DSI and what kind of oil to run
I'm not even going to touch that comment except to say that you won't be making any friends with that statement.
 

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wow it seems like ppl are hitting REPLY to posts way early in the thread without reading the thread . this thread should stop becuase it's entirely useless . and let's leave the svt enthustistiasts forum to more discussions of DSI and what kind of oil to run
Since this seems to be directed at my post I'll reply further.

The opening post is blaming Ford for a design problem.

But, there have been no reports of problems on stock engines. There are numerous track junkies flogging the crap out of the SVTF's engine and it is taking the abuse fine. I'm approaching 60k miles, two or more autocrosses a month, seven or so track days, three sets of street tires, three sets of race tires, eight sets of brake pads, two sets of rotors, two pairs of front calipers, and if I don't hit the rev limiter once during the day I can't fall asleep at night.

So ford is clearly not at fault, you are for running boost. One of the other posters in this thread clearly explains why. What else is there to say?
 
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