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Smaller turbos have better response and low end punch. Pretty evident when driving turbo Focuses with a bunch of different size turbos.
Randy, I clearly clearly understand that. I just said if you used the small turbo, big cams and intake manifold you would have an even better powerband, until you got to the point of maxing the smaller turbo out.


What I said has zero to do with the turbo size.
 

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OK, well I don't really disagree, provided the cams are purpose built and/or dialed in. I'm aware, I mean I'm the one programming our customers cars and as it's been shown here in this thread there are some pretty good combos. This thread has been all over the place and I don't think everyone is fully getting what is being said. :)
 

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What's funny is, Steve's question could have been answered about 50 billion posts ago. Let's say we can all agree that 250 ft-lbs is safe. Ok, that answers part of Steve's question. He said he realizes there are variables. That's when you say, "With the right mods, you can make a fair amount more HP than torque." Ok, good, now his question is answered :)
 

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What's funny is, Steve's question could have been answered about 50 billion posts ago. Let's say we can all agree that 250 ft-lbs is safe. Ok, that answers part of Steve's question. He said he realizes there are variables. That's when you say, "With the right mods, you can make a fair amount more HP than torque." Ok, good, now his question is answered :)
This!


...but I am loving this discussion! lol
 

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Hey Steve.....

250 / 250 is safe. :lol: but then again everyone started throwing in turbo size and cams, Intake manifolds, These do not Apply to Steves question of a STOCK setup :)
 

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When I see this I think of 454 bb chevys that I dyno that someone has put a wrong combination of parts on and they make 100more ft lbs than horsepower. All that means is their torque fell like a rock as the RPMs went up. If you carry your torque for any distance, you WILL NOT see an even hp/torque spread, you will see a higher hp number. This is just a simple fact.
You are really over-simplifying this. It isn't the wrong combination of parts if the motor was intended to rev to 5500rpm and it is likely that it will make more torque than power because of the intended max rpm. What is the difference between a big motor that makes peak torque from 2000-5500rpm and a small motor making it from 5000-7000? The big motor is more fun to drive and carries the power longer despite having more torque than horsepower.
 

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Hey Steve.....

250 / 250 is safe. :lol: but then again everyone started throwing in turbo size and cams, Intake manifolds, These do not Apply to Steves question of a STOCK setup :)
Turbo size would kind of play a role, but cams would not since they're a fairly significant mod and are definitely NOT a bolt-on. I personally consider an intake manifold to be a bolt-on, but maybe Steve doesn't.
 

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You are really over-simplifying this. It isn't the wrong combination of parts if the motor was intended to rev to 5500rpm and it is likely that it will make more torque than power because of the intended max rpm. What is the difference between a big motor that makes peak torque from 2000-5500rpm and a small motor making it from 5000-7000? The big motor is more fun to drive and carries the power longer despite having more torque than horsepower.
i am ending my conversation on this thread. If you want to start a new thread discussing this very issue I will be more than happy to discuss.
 

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bmylez said:
Turbo size would kind of play a role, but cams would not since that's a fairly significant mod and is definitely NOT a bolt-on. I personally consider an intake manifold to be a bolt-on, but maybe Steve doesn't.
^^ But it's not STOCK either. Stock means NO modifications unless I missed something ? The definition of stock would be no modifications of any kind right ?
 

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So, how much are the Duratecs good for with no internal mods.
Internal mods. Didn't specify anything else. So technically, he could be open to cams, but that's up to him in his thread :)
 

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:lol: it's exhausting thinking about everyones Definition of "Stock" I do enjoy talking about all the possibilities though, it gets the brain goin' :)
 

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Hey Randy, on your stage 2 setup, what's the next limiting factor after the motor? For example, will the 42lb injectors max out before the turbo, or maybe the MAF? Specifically on the 2.3 with the GT28R.

I've got a spare long-block I just picked up to build, so I'm contemplating testing the limits of the stock internals before I do the swap :)

Gregg
 

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Not to discount Steve's question, but the 2.3L Duratec is quite a different animal than the Fiesta's 1.6L. Granted they are both Ford, 4 cylinders, are made around the same time frame, etc... but I think the Fiesta is probably different "enough" that a Focus handling XXX torque doesn't transfer over well to a Fiesta.

Not saying you will be posting all over the Faction that a Fiesta can handle 250ft-lbs like a Focus, I just mean that drawing any connection at all (specific or not) probably is a tough thing to back up.

I think the only folks who know about boosting Fiestas are Ford, FSWerks, and a few bloaks across the pond.;)
 

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Hey Randy, on your stage 2 setup, what's the next limiting factor after the motor? For example, will the 42lb injectors max out before the turbo, or maybe the MAF? Specifically on the 2.3 with the GT28R.

I've got a spare long-block I just picked up to build, so I'm contemplating testing the limits of the stock internals before I do the swap :)

Gregg
On your particular car the Stage 1 programming will be the first roadblock you hit.
 

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All this straight line tq makes me want to put this up.

 

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Discussion Starter · #78 · (Edited)
What's funny is, Steve's question could have been answered about 50 billion posts ago. Let's say we can all agree that 250 ft-lbs is safe. Ok, that answers part of Steve's question. He said he realizes there are variables. That's when you say, "With the right mods, you can make a fair amount more HP than torque." Ok, good, now his question is answered :)
I'd gathered that already :thumbup:

I gave a pretty good answer I thought initially. :)
Yes you did :thumbup:

You are really over-simplifying this. It isn't the wrong combination of parts if the motor was intended to rev to 5500rpm and it is likely that it will make more torque than power because of the intended max rpm. What is the difference between a big motor that makes peak torque from 2000-5500rpm and a small motor making it from 5000-7000? The big motor is more fun to drive and carries the power longer despite having more torque than horsepower.
Amazingly I agree with Hocky for once :eek:

Although I think our definition of a big motor might be a bit different, but the theory is the same.

Turbo size would kind of play a role, but cams would not since they're a fairly significant mod and are definitely NOT a bolt-on. I personally consider an intake manifold to be a bolt-on, but maybe Steve doesn't.
We're talking stock internals, that's all. Safe power levels for stock internals.

Internal mods. Didn't specify anything else. So technically, he could be open to cams, but that's up to him in his thread :)
Last time I checked cams were internal. Although in this case they aren't part of the equation because all I'm really concerned with is what the rods and pistons can take although I thought since we were discussing boost I wouldn't need to specify that. :thumbup:

I must say this thread took off in a totally different direction than I tought it would.

Pretty entertaining though.




.
 

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I never said that cams weren't internal...I said it was up to you to decide :). I think a lot of other people would agree with me that head work and internals are different things. I'm pretty sure I've seen car vids that say "Stock internals, drop-in cams." It's one of those things that no one will ever agree on like the HORRIBLE "pump gas" thing (nobody start on that, by the way, dammit...).

Top Speed has already shown you just need a Cossie IM to make stupid power by extending the torque, though.
 
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