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Discussion Starter #1
Hey tom, or anyone, the scanner software has this option:

INJECTION CONTROL PRESSURE DUTY CYCLE 0-100%

Could this possibly be duty cycle right there without having to do formulas, if so, THATS AWESOME< i just found it, and will be testing it tomorow in the car....cant wait to finaly know, IF that is what i hope it is....


It also has:

ENGINE INJECTOR PRESURE INPUT 0-511psig
FUEL PUMP DUTY CYCLE 0-200%

this thing is great, gives you almost 300 parameters to monitor, and you can make a guage of any one of them for easy viewing

I mean it does anything, from monitoring each injector, to mafs, to voltage on anything, to temps of anything, to the level of any fluid, to any faults to any failures, to intake temps, to manifold presures, to whatever the hell you want...this thing is great for $100

Hell, even exhuast backpressure in psi...how cool is that?

[ 10-16-2002, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 

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Let me know what you find out Naz. I have been dying to learn more about this program but living in this apartment complex I can't have my car running all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Im not sure how much we can rely on these a/f guages anymore

Even though mine actually works as far as reacting properly, get on the gas, it jumps around, floor it, it goes rich, get off, it goes all the way lean

BUT...even now, once the car makes up its mind and goes rich, it goes to FULL rich, all the LED's....but im suspicious....at my power, theres no way it can still provide enough fuel to go rich...

ALthough i do remember that before with the chip, it would light up all but 1 led, because the chips run a bit leaner...so if it was enough to catch that...why do you think it would be going full rich now> Is my car special, was there a year and ecu code that ran richer?

I doubt that i can be runing anything but super lean with 160whp++

I would love to throw it on the dyno and see whats going on...im gonna have nader send me a 20lb calibrated mafs and 20lb injectors, and go to the local dyno with a/f and test both stock and that setup...im curious to see whats going on...

but i WILL be testing that duty cycle and mafs voltage again today
 

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Im not sure how much we can rely on these a/f guages anymore
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kind of A/F guage are you running? Is it running off of the factory o2 sensor or off of a wideband sensor?

I found out the hard way a long time ago that you can't trust the ones that run off of the factory sensor for fine tuning a high horsepower car. They work too much like an on/off switch. They either read rich or lean, but they don't tell you how much. Sometimes when the sensor is too close to the head they also just outright read wrong at full throttle, possibly because the mixture is still burning as it passes by the sensor.

[ 10-16-2002, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: techguy ]
 

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Discussion Starter #5
yeah, its just a regular, off the stock o2 sensor, but i figured if im running past 15.0 a/f ratio, that it would stop reading rich....i guess not...if i even am that lean, but i guess i am

at 155-160whp, on stock injectors, the a/f goes to high 15/low 16

Im at 166whp
 

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Naz, as inaccurate as these things are, stoich is stoich. It's impossible to be at 15:1 and still read rich. Physically impossible.

How rich, or how lean you are, is really not reliable. When I was on track for 20-30 minutes, the O2 sensor got so hot, that it was only showing the first green LED (closest to Stoich) even though I KNOW that it was running 11:1. If you look at the A/F vs. Voltage curve of the O2 sensor, you will see that as the sensor heats up, the voltag vs. A/F curves get "tighter". Closer to the "switching" voltage or stoich.

But you CANNOT have a rich signal if it's really lean (15.0:1)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
then explain to me how im running 166whp on STOCK injectors and still below 14.7

I really dont know how...but maybe, mysteriously, somehow i was lucky and got a focus that has alot of fuel???

Im confused now...plugs are fairly white, with a few brown tinny spots on some sides of them...car smells fairly lean and im hitting 4.88volts on the MAFS

i will be testing duty cycle today, but something is weird about all this

[ 10-16-2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 

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Yeah, get back to us.

How is that possible? Dunno... I don't doubt you're getting up to 13-14:1... but I don't think you're going stoich or into the lean zone.

It's still possible with the stock injectors. They are NOT 16lb/hr.
 

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Originally posted by nazthug:
I really dont know how...but maybe, mysteriously, somehow i was lucky and got a focus that has alot of fuel???
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My tank was full when I took delivery. I guess I was lucky too.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by P-51:


It's still possible with the stock injectors. They are NOT 16lb/hr.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well then what are they? This is the million dollar question

After i get bigger ones, im sending mine to RC to test...im tired of guessing

But i also dont think they are 16lb...because that would not support this much power....unless my a/f is at 16-17:1
 

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Mike "The Chip Guy" Wilson has all his software calibrated for a stock injector which flows 18.xx lbs/hr. I think it is 18.4 but I am not sure. And I do not know at what pressure that flow is rated. Someone shoot him an email and I am confident he will be happy to help. I watched over his shoulder while he did my chip. Pretty sweet.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
welll, i agree also, jon tested his injectors at RC and they maxed out at 18.7 but i think that was 100% duty cycle

Rob, are you saying 18lb at 100% or what???

Maybe the different year foci had different injectors...at least by a small amount...

I am waiting to get some dyno time with a wideband soon, i wanna test as it is now just to get an idea of what its doing...

Im gonna check the duty cycle today though
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ok....were sending some injectors to RC to test, once and for all

STOCK and the 20lb that FC just got a whole bunch of just to compare a "upgraded" injector and stock once and for all

Tests will be IDENTICAL, 100%, 42psi

SHould have results early next week

Im tired of guessing and asking ford, who dont know ****
 

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Originally posted by nazthug:
well then what are they? This is the million dollar question
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just posted the flow bench results of my STOCK injectors 1 1/2 weeks ago. Between 18 and 19 lb/hr.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Was that at 100% and what fuel psi?????????

If so, thats not too bad...then maybe, just maybe, as long as i dont hit 5volts, i could still be ok, but i will still be doing wideband a/f runs with both setups
 

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Naz, stop being an idiot. "Ford" knows EXACTLY how much they flow, it's right on the ****ing drawing.

Just because you can't wake the **** up and listen to people who ONLY talk when they know something is true, you would NOT be asking this question still.

I gave you guys a number 1 year ago. Nobody listened. Now people are paying guys to flow test them and SURPRISE, they flow exactly what I said.

Flow ratings are ALWAYS at 100% duty cycle. You will never see a rating on an injector that is not at 100%. If you do, bitch-slap the guy who told you.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
ford knows huh?

I already know, just verifying it, and im only testing them to compare how much the RATED 20lb injector flows, thats all.

NOW, as far as ford knowing? Ive had 3 sources at Ford say they were 16lb, 1 aftermarket company, and proFLOW.

BUt i didnt wanna believe them, and i wanted to compare how the 2 different injectors flowed, so i got them tested, nothing wrong with that huh????

Always so hostile P...
 

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"Ford" knows. The information is stored in records that anybody can see. Ford, as in, the organization has all of this recorded.

Just because you got the info from somebody within Ford who doesn't know how to find it, does not mean that all of Ford does not know.

Give me your VIN, and I can tell you when you bought your car, when you brought it into the shop, what you brought it in for, and what the tech did.

Trust me, we know what size injectors are going into cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
well, we know 1 thing now

with a stock calibrate MAFS and stock injectors at 166whp, i hit 4.94volts

with a 20lb calibrated MAFS and 20lb injectors on Naders car at 173whp, it hit 4.15volts

So at least we now know a calibrated mafs does in fact do at least something...hehehe, and a 20lb should be plenty for a built NA car, if he hit [email protected], it should be good up to about 185-190whp and not hit 5.0volts

So it looks like im gonna start with 20lb MAFS and 20lb injectors and do the fuel tuning from there

RC eng. is testing the injectors AS WE SPEAK, i will have results in about 2 hours.

Testing is being done to a STOCK focus injector, black, and a green, 20lb injector, back to back, identical tests, so we will see exactly what comes out
 
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