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Discussion Starter #1
that is, a lightened flywheel, like my fidanza

ok, i need some SERIOUS input on this, not just, oh yea, its bad, not enough inertia

I need real fact and real explanations

WHY? I just came back from the track and im major dissapointed, although i have not tuned the car at all and i did granny shift to 3rd(my shift mechanism is all jacked up, so until i fix it, i have to shift slow from 2-3 or it grinds, i know, isnt that what i got the tranny fixed for in the first place?
) The spring isnt bringing the shifter back to the middle so the shift is really slopy if you go fast

Anyways, those being my only 2 excuses, it was HORRIBLE to say the least.

The best i did was [email protected] with a 2.25 60ft

SO is this flywheel really killing my drag racing?> Im not sure, on the street it feels good, there is good power and it seems to accelerate fast, so whats going on?>

I ran 14.9-15.0 before at 90-92mph

Im kinda bumed

It should be mentioned however, i have NO idea what my a/f is like or what the hell the engine is doing, so its time to hit up the dyno with some serious time and lots of tuning

Something is not right OR this flywheel is NOT drag racing friendly, and if that is so, i will be proven seriously wrong for all my posts before about how the flywheel cant hurt....


[ 10-05-2002, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 

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15.2 is very nice time Naz for a car that is not tuned (cams) and for granny shift, I know for a fact also that a good chip will help your time and the propper ignition timing should help a lot too.

are you running any chip for now?
 

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Well you said it man. The car is not tuned. Your other mods were tuned when you had that 14.9 run. I think when you get the car dialed in there will be a huge difference.
 

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AAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA. ::::Cough::: sorry.

Ok..

BTW nice setup on the tranny. I doubt that your AF is a problem unless you see massive amounts of black smoke under acceleration or its pinging badly. Your problem IMHO is the flywheel. Its not that a lightend flywheel is bad, its just that going from 22lbs to 8lbs is WAYYY to much. i think a 13lb flywheel would be better. weve beat the technical explanations to death before, so its up to you to figure if it is slowing YOU down. Now i havent been able to go back to the track since putting my old one back in because my tranny is fubared. Now the car is wrecked badly so i probobly wont get to go till next season after i get the new motor (vrrrommmm fully built) and tranny in. But, i think that CTZX3 proved it to me that it does slow you down. He went from 15.0 to 15.7 and now after the stock one is in he runs 14.4 And like a man, i said "Damn chris you were right". So you gotta do the math, its fun on the highway, but if you care about the 1320, put the stock one back in. Or, get some spray.

MIKe

[ 10-05-2002, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: zx3ford ]
 

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DUDE!!!!! Did I not Tell YA!!!!!!

Listen to those with experience!!

REDRUM made my point.

swap the flywheel now and make no changes and goto the track again. You will see the difference!!!

OR you can ask Focus Sport how they went .2 sec faster the the 1/4 with their flywheel


[ 10-05-2002, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: CTZX3 ]
 

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Since it is bolted to the end of the crank, it is not a stretch to consider the flywheel as an integral part of the engine. If a heavier flywheel makes a car faster, then, by logical extension, light weight pistons, light weight rods and a lightened crank would make the car slower, assuming that they changed nothing other than the wieght. Sounds fishy to me...
 

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Just follow this through and you will have your answer.Rotational Inertia

There is such a thing as too much or too little of a good thing. Proper balance of all of the forces acting on each other yields the best result.

[ 10-05-2002, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: Blue01Street ]
 

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With a lightened flywheel it's a learning curve, just like anything else. Now this is coming from someone who's never been to the strip!

But I can say with MUCH less rotating mass to keep your RPM's from dropping or rising too quickly, there is a much smaller margin for error!! You can get away with sloppier shifty with a heavier flywheel. With a lightened flywheel, you'll really need to practice! But assuming you get it down where you can launch, and make the shift transitions as smooth or even smoother than you did with your stock flywheel, your times will be faster.

I think anyone whos says a lightened flywheel makes you slower is wrong. The more correct answer would be, driving a car in the 1320 with a aluminum flywheel is more difficult, but once you get it down, it'll be faster!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
the only thing i can think of is right after you shift and get hard on the throttle the heavier flywheel with catapult you harder for that split second, but i didnt think it was gonna be that bad

And as far as driving and launching with it, its simple, i still got 2.25 60ft on HEAVY 17" rims

I was really bumed out, i really wanted to beat those 1.8T and mitsu v6 GT's

Its so weird, on the street it just feels like it picks up way more speed than it does at the track

That stupid ass 3rd gear didnt help much either.

Just to compare, i was up a bit in front of a 95 gt mustang 5 speed right before i went to third, after which, took me a bit, he passed me

I was furious

Somehow, i still think chris is right, it does slow you down, but im not sure if i want it out, it feels good on the street

I think i have major issues to take care of, i think something is wrong electronically, everytime i get on it in 2nd gear, full throttle, the car does a LOUD POP sound, looses power, i get out of it, then after that its all fine, it drives normally. Also my volt meter, which is really weird i thought, only registers 12.6-12.8 volts with the car on, usually it is a bit over 14 volts, so i think something is wrong electronically, or maybe its my mafs....

Gotta spend some time with it

THe most depressing part was the low mph, it totally feels faster on the road, so i thought maybe i would get ****ty times but better mph, i really didnt wanna dip below 90mph damnit
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Originally posted by belacyrf:


I think anyone whos says a lightened flywheel makes you slower is wrong. The more correct answer would be, driving a car in the 1320 with a aluminum flywheel is more difficult, but once you get it down, it'll be faster!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but the problem most people talk about the flywheel is launching with it, that its harder, but my launches were FINE, i got 2.25 60ft on 17" wheels

Would power shifting help to keep the rpms up? I will try that once i get 3rd gear to shift properly

IF it still grinds, nader, im coming back to tehahehahaehehehahhehahehachapi and stealing your tranny


I would still like some professional advice on light flywheels and drag racing....i wish someone had like a 12-14lb flywheel

and chris: Did you also loose MPH?

Yeah, im not sure how FS ran 14.3 with their flywheel, which also they said was faster than before the flywheel

Im putting about as much to the ground as they were, and im 1 second off....that alot in drag racing, and sadly, im not gonna lie, my car was also gutted, somewhat at least

[ 10-06-2002, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 

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"I think anyone whos says a lightened flywheel makes you slower is wrong. The more correct answer would be, driving a car in the 1320 with a aluminum flywheel is more difficult, but once you get it down, it'll be faster!"

How would you know? you have no experiance at the track, nor have you ever had a lightend flywheel in your focus.

NAZ, 2.25 sux hardcore. REALLY REALLY BAD. If you are happy with 2.25 kill yourself. With all the stuff you have in your car, you should be alot faster than that. What more "Professional advice" do you want or need? you tried the flywheel and you got negitive results. I can promise you that if you put the stock one back in you will be alot happier with your car. If you want to drive to maryland, i can help you ;-) I think you already know the solution to your problem.

MIKE
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i know 2.25 is nothing to brag about, but its not like i got 2.9 or something, and this was on 17" heavy wheels and tires

And the only launch i could do was at 2800rpm somewhat of a drop, small bog and then quick burst to redline, i have 4.06 gears so it gets up fast

BUT i would like an explanation first

Plus i am starting to wonder that maybe my car feels faster on the road because of the added power, and not the flywheel, i wonder if it would feel even faster with the heavier flywheel in ther??

Damnit, i hate wasting good power like this, but you never know till you try it, so im kinda stuck and not sure what to do...

the MPH is what really pissed me off, i could care less about times, i just want the mph there so at least i can confirm the car is alright and making power and its just my driving, but both times and trap speed REALLY sucked
 

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Originally posted by nazthug:

And the only launch i could do was at 2800rpm somewhat of a drop, small bog and then quick burst to redline, i have 4.06 gears so it gets up fast
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the only tihng i can tell you is the bog isn't helping, if i bog off the line, i usually go anywhere from .4-.9 and around 3mph slow in the 1/4...

i would say get the slicks you wanted and go out there launching it high enough so you won't bog and see what happens
 

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Naz,
How many shifts did you have to make in the 1/4 with the 4.06 gears vs. the stock final drive? If the lower gearset caused you to make an extra shift, you would lose time there as well as hitting the traps out of the powerband. I don't know if that's the case, but if you are making an additional shift that would be a contributer too.
 

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Originally posted by nazthug:
i know 2.25 is nothing to brag about, but its not like i got 2.9 or something, and this was on 17" heavy wheels and tires
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It probably isnt your launch then. A light flywheel also makes very fast shifts necessary, your probably just dropping too many revs between shifts or something. You'll get used to it bud, just keep trying.
 

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Noooooo he wont get used to it. theres no making up for that lack of inertia. thers nothing he can do to make it better. nothing.

DO you even have one? if so what do you run?

Ide like to see one person on this board, who is an avid drag racer, that can come in here and show me that there car is noticabley faster in the quarter because of the flywheel.

MIKE
 

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Hey, I got it Naz... Quit drag racing and take your car to an open track event... You will love the flywheel then..
Or, keep drag racing pull the flywheel and sell it to me for 80.00.
 

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Originally posted by REDRUM:

How would you know? you have no experiance at the track, nor have you ever had a lightend flywheel in your focus.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had a lightened flywheel in my PGT. The biggest issue was gear change. Now I never raced it at the track, because I'm not into drag. But I can tell you, that the rotational inertia you speak is only a benefit between gear shifts and AT the point of engagement.
If you can explain to me with specifics as to "why" you believe a lightened flywheel will NEVER be faster than the same car with a stock flywheel, Id love to hear it.

What turns a flywheel? TORQUE... applying the same amount of force to a 24 lb slab of metal vs a 9 lb slab alone, you will have more useable torque turning the 9 lb.
The only downside is the decreased inertia at the point of engagement. So you might get a little more force at that point with a heavier flywheel, but while pulling through the rest of the gear, your using less torque to turn the flywheel, and more torque applying to your gears and turning your wheels so acceleration should be improved!
The reason why some suggest not to use a lightened flywheel for drag, at least that I have heard, is due to the excess clutch wear, launch difficulty and maintaining RPM's through shifts. None of these are issues that cannot be overcome with practice. The clutch wear, just hits you in the pocket. But in the end, the increased acceleration should be a plus!

Just because I've not done it, does not mean I haven't spoken to people about it, and heard and listened to others experiences I don't think it's easier to get good times, I just know that with "perfect" driving of the same vehicle, one with a stock flywheel, and one with a lightened one, the lightened one should pull on it every time!

[ 10-06-2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: belacyrf ]
 

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A lighter flywheel increases the rate of torque applied to the drive wheels. How? It increases the efficiency of the drivetrain by reducing rotational inertia. This is important as it will accelerate you car faster than the identical engine with a heavier flywheel. Also, if you are going to lighten a flywheel, it's much more effective to remove weight from the outer edges than the interior. This is due to the "leveraging" effect that mass has from the center of rotation. Like an ice skater spinning with their arms out, and as they bring them in they spin faster - same energy, faster rotational speed.

The downside of this is that taking off from a dead start (kinda like drag racing) is more difficult, because there's less energy stored in a lighter flywheel. Therefore there is less energy available at the clutch during the launch(energy=(1/2) mass x velocity-squared (.5 x m x v^2)). If you decrease the mass, you must increase the speed (revs at launch) to get the same energy.

Underdrive pulleys and lighter wheels help acceleration using this same principle - no more torque at the crank, but delivered to the wheels faster. Lighter wheels have the same effect, but to a smaller degree.
 

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Originally posted by belacyrf:
The only downside is the decreased inertia at the point of engagement.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Inertia = the resistance an object has to a change in its state of motion.

A decrease in inertia is good. But, a lighter flywheel will have decreased momentum which translates to less stored energy available at the point of launch.
 
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