Can u get 12psi from a m45?

 

Either way you are going to have to find a way to cool the m45 shot. The blast is going to be so hot you will have tuning problems...?

Or am I just way off here?

 

umm..you can send it to that company, forgot the name that will extrude hone the manifold and work the supercharger to handle 13-14 psi efficiantly

 

I don't believe the 260-270hp you are hoping to achieve will be possible with the M45 SC. I don't believe it can be safely spun to the speeds required for that kind of power.

You might also want to track down that magazine article where they used the M62 SC (same as the SVT's) on the regular Zetec motor. That still might not even be enough for that kind of power, but it certainly would be a lot easier with the M62, over the M45.

Of course, the most "proven" method of getting to that kind of power is Tom's kit, I believe.

As for the weaknesses, I believe its mainly the rods, and of course the fuel system.

[ 10-06-2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: SlickShoes ]

 

you're going to melt your blower... get a turbo... it's the only way to go, and as far as the head I run a turbocharged zetec with a stock head, but am considering the focussport head without decking for my car... I'm pretty sure focussport has done a considerable amount of research to reach their head package, and it should work well with FI...

 

Hmmm, I knew I might get some of the doubters out there, let me put this to rest right here and now.

First getting 12-14psi from the M45 is very COMMON in Honda-land. By smoothing out the casing you keep overall heat down. By letting the air flow smoothly around the rotors and the casting you'll reduce heat generated by the rotors beating up the incoming air. Also I plan on fighting additional thermal problems with a mapped water injection system. That should be worth a psi or two without changing the blower pulley.

Also correctly tuned every one pound of boost is equal to 10hp. So adding 12psi together comes out to 120hp and that's hardly an issue for this blower. Check out SCC's Project Miata which used this blower to get over 180hp at the wheels before it was stolen and replaced with a M62 blower. They ran the blower at 7psi and got close to 192hp total on a engine that did about 120hp stock. Inlet temps got over 210 degrees! That's where porting the blower housing and water injection comes in. Project Miata is controlled by a TEC-II, this project will be controlled by the Pectel because it's easy install.

Now the Zetec head might not flow as well as the Mazda head, but that doesn't mean I can't get it for flow just as well or better with some effective port and combustion chamber work.

So running the blower itself, with a long tube header and 2.5" exhaust with stock head and camshafts should crack 200hp at 10psi or less. Getting to 200hp isn't that hard, just hasn't been done yet. Mostly because of the cash outlay most people have to deal with when buying the blower kit. Anybody parting with almost $3000 will take some time for the wallet to recover.

Add in ported head, custom ground Crane or Crower camshafts and a slightly lower compression ratio and you should have at least 230-240hp. With some fine tunning maybe 250-260hp, my goal.

Not including the cost of the kit which is included with the car, it would still cost less than a Stage 2 turbo kit for the Focus and we'll have a more reilable and powerful Focus than the avg turbo Focus here.

 

just wondering... Can u put an air-2-air intercooler 2 the J.R. SuperCharger? I've never really seen one, so I don't know if it's possible as far as space and all...

But, it's something I've been contimplating 4 a second project/street car......

 

Sounds like a great project!

More boost with coolant system. Tuned fuel and air.

Tuned head work and balanced and improved valve train parts.

Better rods and lower compression improved pistons.

I think its possible. It wont be easy. But it is possible.

Good luck!

 

empiredj

with everything that you have listed you could of spent the cost of my turbo kit ,and not spent the time or money to pull the head add the mapped water injection ,the stand alone unit, header and be doing more power and it will last longer because it will be intercooled

as for the blower doing 200hp at the wheels with 10psi we have had them here and tested them IT WONT DO IT

As for 10hp for every 1 lb boost this wont happen eather past about 9psi the blower starts spinning so fast you will loose more and more power just to turn it and will be making so much heat this will also kill power

This does not come from , my best friends girl friends brother told me ,i have had them on my dyno and we have changed pulleys and tuned them with the changes

do a turbo a blower will never beat a turbo in power or times (there i said it )

tom

 

Originally posted by AP7:
just wondering... Can u put an air-2-air intercooler 2 the J.R. SuperCharger? I've never really seen one, so I don't know if it's possible as far as space and all...

But, it's something I've been contimplating 4 a second project/street car......

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not easily. I think it can be done (Mini Cooper S?) The problem is with the current setup with the JRSC for the Focus, is that it mounts right to the engine/intake manifold. Not much room for relocating it.

 

Originally posted by 1turbofocus:
empiredj

with everything that you have listed you could of spent the cost of my turbo kit ,and not spent the time or money to pull the head add the mapped water injection ,the stand alone unit, header and be doing more power and it will last longer because it will be intercooled

as for the blower doing 200hp at the wheels with 10psi we have had them here and tested them IT WONT DO IT

As for 10hp for every 1 lb boost this wont happen eather past about 9psi the blower starts spinning so fast you will loose more and more power just to turn it and will be making so much heat this will also kill power

This does not come from , my best friends girl friends brother told me ,i have had them on my dyno and we have changed pulleys and tuned them with the changes

do a turbo a blower will never beat a turbo in power or times (there i said it )

tom

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you ever modified a M45 blower housing? I've seen them, mostly done by Endyne. That same blower on a Honda makes 240-250hp possble with a stock head. Also I mentioned Project Miata. That's currently over 200hp with a M62 at the same boost level and that's because the M62 allows more flow without turning the blower faster.

A ERI Aquamist water injection system doesn't cost that much. It would be mapped from Petel using one of it's control outputs, which I believe it has 2.

I never claimed a supercharger would out perform a turbo. But I rather not deal with all the trouble of making a turbo work. I haven't been totally impressed with the output of some turbo Focus I have seen. Not talking about any of the one's here, more like the Alamo Focus and a couple of other ones out there.

Plus, it's DIFFERENT and maybe, just maybe I could help some of the other JRSC owners out there get more than 50-60hp out of there blower kits. Hard to comment on something you haven't done yourself. Besides, with all the negitive media out there about the JSRC kit on Focus, nobody would expect one to be really that fast. Well 250hp@2500lbs, sounds like low 13's to me. Drop a little more weight and 12's should be possible.

If you've turbocharged your Focus I would FULLY expect 12 second ETs if not faster.

 

Originally posted by Egz:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AP7:
just wondering... Can u put an air-2-air intercooler 2 the J.R. SuperCharger? I've never really seen one, so I don't know if it's possible as far as space and all...

But, it's something I've been contimplating 4 a second project/street car......

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not easily. I think it can be done (Mini Cooper S?) The problem is with the current setup with the JRSC for the Focus, is that it mounts right to the engine/intake manifold. Not much room for relocating it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One could be done, but the time and cost involved might not be worth it. At least to me. If I did do one it would be like this -

http://www.theoldone.com/sc/faq.html#7

The Endyne SC whenever it's finally released, will have an air to water incooler sandwiched between the blower and intake manifold.

 

honda kits USUALLY use the m62 blower, on the si's

The M45,sure it will push 14psi, but the higher psi you go, the less affective it is, so if the first 7psi makes 70whp, you best believe the next 7psi is NOT gonna make 70whp, let me guarantee you this NOW

Endyne does some good work though, and you will DEFINETLY need some sort of cooler

 

Originally posted by 1turbofocus:
empiredj

with everything that you have listed you could of spent the cost of my turbo kit ,and not spent the time or money to pull the head add the mapped water injection ,the stand alone unit, header and be doing more power and it will last longer because it will be intercooled

as for the blower doing 200hp at the wheels with 10psi we have had them here and tested them IT WONT DO IT

As for 10hp for every 1 lb boost this wont happen eather past about 9psi the blower starts spinning so fast you will loose more and more power just to turn it and will be making so much heat this will also kill power

This does not come from , my best friends girl friends brother told me ,i have had them on my dyno and we have changed pulleys and tuned them with the changes

do a turbo a blower will never beat a turbo in power or times (there i said it )

tom

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Run a bone stock blower at 10psi? Of course it wouldn't do it with the inlet temps you would have overdriving the blower like that. What does it take to get a M45 to do 12psi the right way?

Read this - http://www.theoldone.com/articles/damaged-blower/index.html

Oh, before you doubt that. Many Grand Prix GTPs run deep into the 12's with modified M90 blowers that run alot cooler with a modified housing

Read this - http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/info/info_blowerporting.htm

Based on my somewhat limited experience with Eaton blowers tell me 250hp is more than possible with a reasonable investment.

Oh, one more link - http://www.theoldone.com/archive/sc-upgrade_feedback.htm

 

Hey,

Go for it! I'd be very interested in going this route too. Those links gave me something to think about.

 

Originally posted by nazthug:
honda kits USUALLY use the m62 blower, on the si's

The M45,sure it will push 14psi, but the higher psi you go, the less affective it is, so if the first 7psi makes 70whp, you best believe the next 7psi is NOT gonna make 70whp, let me guarantee you this NOW

Endyne does some good work though, and you will DEFINETLY need some sort of cooler

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wasn't talking about the M62 found on B series kits. I was talking apples to apples and that's the M45 which is common not only with the Focus kit, but D series Hondas and 1.6/1.8L Mazda Miatas. Peak effencity happens around 12psi if I remember correctly. I think it's on Eaton's site, I don't remember.

Water is the most effective coolant in the world. Since the motor won't be seeing WOT and full boost at all times, water injection is good enough and VERY effective.

I dunno about that last 7psi. Cooler compressed air is easy to make power with than hot compressed air. I can almost guarrantee, inlet temps will be well under 200 degrees with water injection. I'll be doing some temp testing once everything it up and running. If the project goes through. The person in question is very excited about the Project.

 

Cool it with Nitrous!
1. More horses
2. Cooler than water
3. You'll hit your hp goal easier.
4. Cost is comparable to water injection kits.

Good luck either way!

 

Originally posted by Leadfoot/S2:
Cool it with Nitrous!
1. More horses
2. Cooler than water
3. You'll hit your hp goal easier.
4. Cost is comparable to water injection kits.

Good luck either way!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly my thoughts.

 

Why can't they make a water to air intercooler like this. It cost $1,199.

The grand prix guys can buy one for their cars at http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/products/intercooler.htm .

[ 10-08-2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: lourenco ]

 

Empire.. sounds like a FUN project, and you've done your homework. I have "similar" plan but not to the extent you are going.
A couple notes. The pectel T2 does have 2 outputs, but once you go FI, one of those is for fuel pressure, which leaves you with one.

Here comes the problem, unless you are going to redesign your intake manifold, you will need a minimum of a dual jet aquamist setup to get even cooling to all cylinders. Jackson will NOT provide water cooling for the Focus for this reason, they cannot cool all cylinders evenly with a single jet setup. So keep that in mind.

I think this can be evidenced by the number of failures of the 5th injector setup. The manifold design most likely does not allow for an even mixture of fuel with 100% of the air, then resulting in some cylinders running lean. You will most likley see the same thing with the aquamist, with some cylinders running hot. Now I'm not 100% on this, but all the evidence seems to fall into place.
Now, if you do go with a multi-jet setup, then you might need to use the other outputs of the Pectel for that. Unless you can map one output for both injectors.

I am glad to hear a second opinion about polishing the eaton casing. I was considering that, but really didn't know the true effects.

 

Originally posted by Ducman69:
*Edit* with regard to 5th injector failures, they were on the inside cylinders were they not (I remember cylinder 3 being a problem)? If uneven fuel distribution were the primary fault, the outside cylinders would be the ones running lean and consequently detonating and failing.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I keep hearing #3 being the first to go as well. I honestly do not know the flow characteristics of the intake manifold, I am only pieceing together my conversation with Jackson racing about water injection, and applying that to the 5th injector issues. It's just a theory!

 

Cost is not going to be comparable to water injection kits due to operation cost.

Its a supercharger... meaning its not exactly the easiest thing to adjust the boost on the fly. If you are relying on nitrous to act as an intercooler to compensate for very high intake temps, you need to run it whenever you go into high boost.

That would be very expensive and not very practical to accomplish. Water/alc or just water is easier/cheaper to get and store for continued use (can fill up whenever you get gas).

*Edit* with regard to 5th injector failures, they were on the inside cylinders were they not (I remember cylinder 3 being a problem)? If uneven fuel distribution were the primary fault, the outside cylinders would be the ones running lean and consequently detonating and failing.

[ 10-08-2002, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: Ducman69 ]

 

I'm sorry to tell you that this is relly not possible... you will never see 260HP from that little blower... a more reasonable goal is 200FWHP which even still will be a challenge for you, but it's your money so do what you want...

 

Originally posted by FastFocusZX3:
I'm sorry to tell you that this is relly not possible... you will never see 260HP from that little blower... a more reasonable goal is 200FWHP which even still will be a challenge for you, but it's your money so do what you want...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on??

There too many 200+hp JRSC Civics running around that tell me otherwise. Either that or the Zetec is worst then I thought, which couldn't be the case if Focus Central does low 14's to mid 13's with it's all motor Focus. Apply some of the same thing and add the blower, sounds like over 200hp to me, way over.

Also I haven't seen and I doubt you haven't also, a JRSC Focus with ported housing, supercharger spec'd camshafts, ported cylinder head, water injection, 12psi blower pulley and a really good exhaust system. I do remember somebody with a Petal, the blower kit and a few minor things.

The point is, unless I'm not taking something into account here, 225-250hp is VERY possible. Affordable, prolly not, but costing a small fortune, I doubt that seriously.

 

Sounds interesting, good luck, keep us posted.