well why post it here then if you aren't going to tell everyone whats going on , this could have been handled via PM why waste everyones time :dunno: if this is a sponsor problem then your in the wrong forum ill give this a few before i remove it

 

I will be nice and link it..
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126290

It is complete crap that a customer could buy something from a company only to then be told the tune will not be sent (after it was payed for) because the seller does not want this specific tuner to have his tune. When there is no real way for this tuner to get the tune from the SCT.

This is an issue of one owner of a company having an issue and taking it out on a cutomer who payed for a product. People in the buy and sell thread, dont they get banned and bashed if they dont fallow though with the money or product? Why dont you ban this seller? :lol: yeah that would be the day.

 

The customer has an SCT Xcal2... All the tuner needs to do is send the customer the tune that he was supposed to receive. At no time will the installer see the workings of the tune... Sounds pretty messed up to me as well...

 

Frantic u beat me to it lol

 

yea he gives 200 bucks off if u buy the kit with no tune. whats wrong with that u got a Xcal2 u just didnt get a tune and he gave u the 200 back that should cover a new tune im not saying its right or wrong im just say that u make it sound as if u did get anything and this isnt even your car :what: Tom would be able to see the tune only if Randy emailed it to the guy it could be opend in PRP software i think this is something u should have pm Randy about i dont see randy ripping anyone off damn he has helped me with parts i didnt even buy from him

 

yea he gives 200 bucks off if u buy the kit with no tune. whats wrong with that u got a Xcal2 u just didnt get a tune and he gave u the 200 back that should cover a new tune im not saying its right or wrong im just say that u make it sound as if u did get anything and this isnt even your car :what: Tom would be able to see the tune only if Randy emailed it to the guy it could be opend in PRP software i think this is something u should have pm Randy about i dont see randy ripping anyone off damn he has helped me with parts i didnt even buy from him

A quality tune which is what is supposed to be on the xcal when sent out from Xios, costs a WHOLE lot more than $200. Typical Dyno tune costs range from $350 for a 1/2 day to over $600 for a full day. So in no way is $200 covering a quality tune on a Turbo'd SVTF.

The tune cannot be pulled off the xcal2. It can only be pulled off the ECU. If it's sent in .LL3 format which I'm sure it is, It can't even be opened up. From an email, It can only be loaded onto the xcal2.

 

dude i have a PRP and if a tune is emailed it very well can be opened in Advantage i have done it many many times now it cant be pulled from the Xcal to the your cpu. u can pull it from the ECU to the xcal2 but u still cant open it i wasnt saying that the 200 bucks coverd dyno time does Randy send a dyno with every kit NO it covers a mail tune that is all

 

But he hasent givin the customer the $200 back and the customer doesnt want that they want the tune as the kit is already on the car and just needs the tune to make it driveable.

Orangezxt I guess you dont care about money? If you were to pay for something and then not get it you would be fine with it? :screwy: You seem wetated to me...

 

like i said before i wasnt say that its right or wrong the guy didnt say anything about sending the 200 bucks back until i said something now if the kit owner doesnt want to take the 200 then i see where your coming from he made it sound as if he GOT the 200 i to would want my WHOLE kit

 

have you guys talked this over with Randy?? i just dont see him doing this there has to be more to it

 

dude i have a PRP and if a tune is emailed it very well can be opened in Advantage i have done it many many times now it cant be pulled from the Xcal to the your cpu. u can pull it from the ECU to the xcal2 but u still cant open it i wasnt saying that the 200 bucks coverd dyno time does Randy send a dyno with every kit NO it covers a mail tune that is all

If it's emailed in LL3 format it cannot be opened. try opening an LL3 format... I won't hold my breath.

Randy dyno tuned a car with the Xios kit on it to develop the tune. The customer is supposed to provide datalogs for Randy to tweak the tune for the specific car = very much the equivalent of a dyno tune.
I think it's kind of a given that you can pull a tune from the ECU.

And yes, Randy said he wouldn't provide a tune b/c Tom was doing the install. He screwed xios.

 

Thats my fault for not clarifying. The was my point in the original post. He isnt in this to prove someone can do something better. He just wants to drive back to NC and have his car back. And when he is ready he can get a full dyno tune, and that I do believe is his right as a human to do what he wants with his property. Bla. Im going to sleep, 5 o clock comes to early

 

like i said before i wasnt say that its right or wrong the guy didnt say anything about sending the 200 bucks back until i said something now if the kit owner doesnt want to take the 200 then i see where your coming from he made it sound as if he GOT the 200 i to would want my WHOLE kit

Sorry for the confusion then, the customer never got the mony back and doesnt want it at all. He just wants the tune he payed for so he can get his car back. He is not having Tom tune it but had him install everything and make sure its running right and then get some dyno pulls of it. (that is to my best knowledge I will let him state otherwise)

 

If its true then I side with Tom. :dunno: However since its Tom, Im inclined to believe there is more to this than was posted and some stirring of the pot is going on.

 

Thats my fault for not clarifying. The was my point in the original post. He isnt in this to prove someone can do something better. He just wants to drive back to NC and have his car back. And when he is ready he can get a full dyno tune, and that I do believe is his right as a human to do what he wants with his property. Bla. Im going to sleep, 5 o clock comes to early

HAHA shut up james dont remind me... I should be heading to bed soon too as I got to be up by 4:30... hopefuly this gets resolved tomorrow so this weekend I can still take the customer down to get his car. Hey we can hope right...?

 

Too bad so many of the finer points and details were left out of this little story. Let me fill in a few of the blanks.

Once it was made clear to us that "mystery customer" wanted to buy the XIOS kit and take his car to Tom and Tom had already expressed an interest in seeing what he could do with the XIOS kit, it was decided that we'd prefer to not to send a program if that was the plan. Instead the customer was offered a $200 discount. This was BEFORE the kit was installed, by the way. This was because we certainly weren't going to hand over a finished file to a competitor. Tom is more than capable of doing this work so why not let him strut his stuff? We wanted to see how his results would be without any work done for him. Maybe Tom would check out the file and maybe he wouldn't. Not sending the file over really just took care of that question completely. This is not that hard to understand. I don't think Tom would want me taking credit for any of his work and vice versa. I already know that Tom can pull files off of an ECU and there is no disputing that. This route ensured that everyone was absolutely doing their own work and that is the way it should be.

At one point "mystery customer" decided that he didn't want to mess with all of this and was just going to take his car to a local place since we had made it clear that we didn't want to send files to Tom for reasons already stated. And in doing so passed up the opportunity to accept the refund for tuning. Apparently, the local place wanted too much money to do all of this work so Benny decided to take his car to Tom instead, knowing full well we had no intention of sending over files.

I recall calling "mystery customer" to offer my assistance with his local shop and straight up asked him where this work was being done at. He flat out lied to me, but I didn't know it at the time. Later that day Tom called XIOS asking about something not fitting the way they thought it should and it became crystal clear that we were deceived and that this whole thing was turning shady.

Perhaps if we weren't lied to we'd be more sympathetic about the whole thing or perhaps if Tom didn't take every opportunity to talk **** on me or FocusSport things would be different.

The fact is, we had our position from the beginning and that was that we didn't want to send programming over to Tom, again for reasons already stated. Now you may or may not agree with that and that is fine, but we were up front about it. We didn't try to lie about it. "Mystery customer" was offered a discount and passed it up. He could have said "screw this, I want my money back." Instead we were tricked and put into a situation that we were trying to avoid all together.

XIOS and I agreed that yes, even though "mystery customer" was not up front about this whole transaction that he is still being inconvenienced by this, so he was offered at least $500 credit so that Tom could tune his car from start to finish.

I give XIOS the best ****ing deal you could imagine on programming, much better than what has been ASSumed by some. No need to feel bad for them, they are getting their moneys worth and then some.

Lots of people on these message boards love to pick sides and engulf themselves in this kind of drama. Do what you must, but at least look at the facts. We didn't want to partake in this and made it clear from the beginning. The customer was given options and was NEVER forced to buy this kit. The customer passed on the options and then tried to pull a fast one on us to save a few bucks. We called him on it and now he's pissed and the haters are trying to spin it to make us look bad. Even after a $500 credit was offered. Call us paranoid, call us what you want - I've heard it all, we're just tryiing to protect our work, which is not an uncommon practice by companies, although on Focus message boards it seems that some consider it criminal. We have our stance whether you agree with it or not and it wasn't kept from the customer at any point.

EDITED to remove the "mystery customer's" real name

 

Not that my statements will sway anyone who has their mind made up, but I did have some knowledge about this happening last week, and Randy isn't making this up just now. He'd mentioned all this to me before.

Its sad really that someone can be offered so very much, and still look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

... im not seeing a problem here... it seems that focussport tried to do the right thing here... hell.. i'd protect my work... and yeah... tom is by far capable of doing it himself from what ive heard... so what is the issue?

take the discount... pay tom for the full tune then and there... and call it done?

o well.... perhaps im crazy...

-AcId-

 

Speaking from personal experience, I feel like both FocusSport and XIOS (as companies) as well as Randy and Andreas (as individuals) have bent over backwards to help me out with my turbo install with respect to financial issues, hardware, and tuning. Keep up the good work :thumbup:

 

I arrived at the office today to find a taunting email from Tom accusing me of deleting a thread here regarding this topic.

I've been dealing with a serious, personal family matter for the past 12 hours and wasn't even aware of the situation.

Nice of him to accuse me of something he knew nothing about.

 

It still doesent change the fact that this guy paid for a tune and the only reason he didnt get it was he took it to focus-power

If he had taken it to say McNews or my local shop CS Motorsports would he of got a tune? Anyone with the early Diablo software can ready a file and change it to a tune file does that mean that every shop with Diablo wont get a tune for the Xios kit

It didnt change the facts that on the Xios site it states the kit comes with a tune loaded into the xcal2 I didnt see it say "Unless you take it to Focus-Power"

 

I arrived at the office today to find a taunting email from Tom accusing me of deleting a thread here regarding this topic.

I've been dealing with a serious, personal family matter for the past 12 hours and wasn't even aware of the situation.

Nice of him to accuse me of something he knew nothing about.

I am very sorry to hear about your persional family matter, I hope that is resolved very soon whatever it may be. Not defending Tom or trying to say your wrong but in all fairness this thread was removed and I quote... "Admin pulled it till Randy has time to look over it bro" was the reason for pulling it. There was no warning it just up and left the area...

It still doesent change the fact that this guy paid for a tune and the only reason he didnt get it was he took it to focus-power

If he had taken it to say McNews or my local shop CS Motorsports would he of got a tune? Anyone with the early Diablo software can ready a file and change it to a tune file does that mean that every shop with Diablo wont get a tune for the Xios kit

It didnt change the facts that on the Xios site it states the kit comes with a tune loaded into the xcal2 I didnt see it say "Unless you take it to Focus-Power"

He could of taken it anywhere apparently and had any other tuner use the tune... but just because Tom is working on the car he wont send the tune... hmm kind of sad how that is really. Randy dont get me wrong I understand why you dont wana send the tune to Tom, but then again the customer payed for it he wants his tune, and like ebayfocus2 said on Xios's site it doesnt say "Unless you take it to Focus-Power" if it did I could see you doing this. But still.... its all he said she said the fine line is the customer payed and deserves what is his.

I would like to know the answer to weather or not you would of sent the tune to McNews or any other tuner for that matter? Also whats to say that someone with your tune for the Xios kit woudlnt go to Tom for a further tune or even for a dyno... would you then no longer help the cutomer because Tom would of seen your tune then?

 

Not defending Tom or trying to say your wrong but in all fairness this thread was removed and I quote... "Admin pulled it till Randy has time to look over it bro" was the reason for pulling it. There was no warning it just up and left the area...

I'm glad you're not trying to defend Tom, because there is no defense. I'm not going to post his email here, but he flat out accused ME of removing the thread without knowing the FACTS.

We DO have several Admins here, not just me... And, I don't want to get into semantics, but I think it was a Mod that TEMPORARILY removed it. Which was his right to do so, for whatever reason he deemed necessary.

I've researched what happened. The the funny thing is, RANDY was the one who PUT THE THREAD BACK HERE once he saw/read it!

So, all this ranting about him wanting to cover something up is complete BS.

 

This is the **** that ruins FocalJet.

I read the original post last night and knew right away it was going to turn into a Focus-Power/FocusSport issue, which really should be a non-issue.

Any programmer on this board knows for a fact that if they built a program and a competitor got ahold of it and started coping files out of it they would be pissed. This is no different.

If Randy says he offered the guy a refund the guy should have taken it and ran. My guess is either the guy does not know of the running fued between the two or was mislead along the way by someone and was lead into something he did not know about.

 

This is the **** that ruins FocalJet.

If Randy says he offered the guy a refund the guy should have taken it and ran. My guess is either the guy does not know of the running fued between the two or was mislead along the way by someone and was lead into something he did not know about.

x2 on the crap that would makes you sign off any forum. And I thought about the Xcal being sent, and the refund on the tune.....but it would have put him out more money in the end to get a custom tune. And in all honesty....he should only trust a shop that regularly tunes Foci, especially since this kit is new to the market.

On my notes:

Well it is BS that the customer didnt at least receive a base tune to get it running. Randy, You couldn't provide a detuned version just to cover up your tunes "potential". Either way, this whole scenario is junk. I do understand why Randy didnt send it, trade secrets. However tuning is tuning and a customer deserves something to at least get him through the day.

Are you worried about being "out tuned?" That numbers from Tom, if higher, would prevent people from getting tuning or mail orders from you? That is crap too guys! Hell, there are plenty comments why a customer would get bigger and reliable numbers from a Tom Tune versus a focussport in such an event lol. You tune for safety, he is at the limits, and so forth yada yada yada.

Personally, I get my products from our forum sponsors and vendors for experience and customer service.

Customer service sometimes trumpts experience. A company that works with customers and other speed shops are highly desireable in my eyes.

Personally this whole scenario stinks. Both FocusSport and Focus-Power need to get their heads out of their tail pipes. I only say this cause from all these rants back and forth between here and FF are very discouraging. Right now McNews and CFM gets my bank cards for now.

Please for the love of GOD! Just resolve the issue, BOTH SPEED SHOPS. Get the customer what he deserves, seems like he is going to be taken out by friendly fire lol. There are so many different angles to this scenario that no one will benefit: Focussport, Focus-Power, or the customer. And thats just bad for business and the Focus Forum community!

I love the Forum Community and when **** like this happens, it feels like my brothers and sisters in my family are fighting. Kinda wierd, but definitely sad and tremendously frustrating.