Koni FSD

3164 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by rheacer, Nov 17, 2007

seanmc

Discussion Starter · Oct 25, 2005

Inasmuch as this forum is often the "advanced suspension" forum, I thought I'd submit the following to our resident bulls*** police --

Has anyone heard of / checked out / for that matter, driven on Koni's new FSD (Frequency Selective Damper)? They’ve seemingly managed to build in some sort of bypass valve that diverts the oil to either the main chamber or an auxiliary chamber, depending on piston speed. The website is full of maddening gee-whiz sales talk, but here’s a few selected quotes:

What you see is a special valve, which is able to control an oil flow parallel to the one going through the piston. The FSD feature, giving a rise in damping force almost linear to the time that the piston is moving in one direction, closes this parallel oil flow.

Basically, comfort and handling can be split in two different frequency areas:
› For comfort, with the suspension moving in a high frequency area (± 10 Hz), asking for low damping forces.
› For handling, with the suspension moving in a low frequency area (± 1 Hz), asking for high damping forces.

There’s charts and graphs and animations and crap, but I think you get the gist.

Early versions of these dampers apparently worked wonders on the Lambo Gallardo. I can’t think of any earthly reason why I *wouldn’t* want such a brilliantly simple-but-effective damper, particularly on my daily-driven, weekend-warrior luxo-compromise-rod(apart from the fact that they don’t appear to have a Focus application). Can you?

Also, I’d like to formally start the “pun the product name” competition. My submission: “Frequently Schizophrenic Damping.”

I welcome your input, and so does this friggin smiley guy

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1 - 15 of 15 Posts

OmniFocus

· #2 · Oct 25, 2005

I'd like to see an independent shock dyno, I think.

carlfreddy

· #3 · Oct 25, 2005

I'd like to see an independent shock dyno, I think.

+1

I'm of the opinion that it's a compromise on both ends. You won't get the performance you want with the comfort you want, but you'll get a little of both. Personally, I'll sacrifice a comfortable daily-drive ride for smoking autocross performance. But then, I'm still a young pup

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Smurf

· #4 · Oct 25, 2005

2

I'd like to see an independent shock dyno, I think.

Click to expand...

I'm of the opinion that it's a compromise on both ends. You won't get the performance you want with the comfort you want, but you'll get a little of both. Personally, I'll sacrifice a comfortable daily-drive ride for smoking autocross performance. But then, I'm still a young pup

Agreed. My daily drive is gutted and uses 5 points.

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teamDFL

· #5 · Oct 25, 2005

Anyone want to guess my opinion?

seanmc

Discussion Starter · #6 · Oct 25, 2005

Anyone want to guess my opinion?

<groan> we know... </groan>

But Koni quality / reliability aside, how 'bout the tech? According to one of the columnists in Vehicle Dynamics International, "FSD is under evaluation by several manufacturers."

I'd like to point out that I'm personally disappointed that no one else is punning the name...

teamDFL

· #7 · Oct 25, 2005

Anyone want to guess my opinion?

Click to expand...

<groan> we know... </groan>

But Koni quality / reliability aside, how 'bout the tech? According to one of the columnists in Vehicle Dynamics International, "FSD is under evaluation by several manufacturers."

I'd like to point out that I'm personally disappointed that no one else is punning the name...

I am sure that it is under evaluation by manufacturers. Much like magnaride, in theory it should allow for a single damper to get close to multiple demands. I still want to know why it is that this is any better than an Edelbrock IAS damper?

seanmc

Discussion Starter · #8 · Oct 25, 2005

I'm of the opinion that it's a compromise on both ends. You won't get the performance you want with the comfort you want, but you'll get a little of both. Personally, I'll sacrifice a comfortable daily-drive ride for smoking autocross performance.

But-but-but Koni promises that there's no compromise...

I'm fine with compromise for my particular application. For what it's worth, I'm happier overall with the SVT suspension that I have in the car currently than I was with the H&R (fixed damping) coilovers I had in prior.

Maybe I'm just old.

But then, I'm still a young pup

Bastard.

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P-51

· #9 · Oct 26, 2005

I can say that this technology has been discussed by industry people I know. I tried to follow the conversations about it, but couldn't. I'm not sure if they like it or not. I'll try to review what was said.

I think the first whiff smelled of BS. But upon further review, their might be something to it.

Of course, if anybody is of the illusion that an OEM would pay extra money for some minor ride/handling improvement... you'd be sadly mistaken.

seanmc

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 26, 2005

if anybody is of the illusion that an OEM would pay extra money for some minor ride/handling improvement... you'd be sadly mistaken.

Maybe I read it wrong, but I thought that Koni supplied essentially the same dampers to Lamborghini as an OE fitment for the Gallardo.

And I don't know, Rob - I think it depends on the market segment. Are there not mfr's who have used or are using "computer controlled" damping, active damping, adaptive damping...or other, more complicated (and presumably, more expensive) solutions?

Interested to hear what you dig up

EDIT ----

Forgot to mention - GRM has a quick article about them in the November issue, and they seemed reasonably impressed. While I've never known them to be terribly critical of anything, the absence of faint praise is promising. What's more, they've decided to put a set on a Mini project car.

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Ray

· #11 · Oct 26, 2005

Koni Friggin Sucks Dick. okay maybe not but it was funny.
Koni For Sales Deprevation
Koni Forces Sale of Dampers

etc. better, Sean?

seanmc

Discussion Starter · #12 · Oct 27, 2005

Thank you for playing, Ray. But you don't have to work blue, kid - you're better than that.

seanmc

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 16, 2007

Pulling this one out of the ashes...Did any F1 fans notice how well the McLarens dealt with high-frequency suspension movements (curbs, rough pavement) this past year (2007)?

Guess what dampers they were using.
(mind you - that's not the only source for the info)

Yes, of course they were high-spec, high-dollar custom-builds, but the fundamental tech was the same. There was a good article about FSD in Racecar Engineering a few months back, and, well -- I invite the doubters to read and weigh in.

Sadly, Koni do not make an FSD application for the Focus, and weren't--as of this past May--offering custom race shock builds with FSD here in the states.

Reza

· #14 · Nov 16, 2007

H&R Coilovers use the Frequency Selective Damper also I think

rheacer

· #15 · Nov 17, 2007 (Edited)

um, I'm not so sure this is NEW technology, as much as NEW marketing.
We've had shocks with multi function valves for years. Witness the off-road folks.
You have a valve that works for high frequency jounes, and then a "pop off" valve for the nasty hits.
I had shock/forks that did that 30 years ago for dirt bikes. Showa, White Brothers, come to mind.
If you want REAL geeWhiz, how about the shocks that have bits of ferrous powder that flow fine at normal speeds, but with a magnet thicken for high speed damping. Pretty cool, but I wonder how long they can last with metal filings in the fluid..... Sounds like counter productive.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-83694037.html

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