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so you're saying by welding on the lunchbox resonator...you got MORE performance than you did with the MBRP itself? and it was noticable? ha. ill believe it when i see the dyno.
mbrp and stock system hybrid = more power and sleeper
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no dyno here my friend, but believe me, i got back most of my torgue!!
the engine is more responsive, and not as sluggish as it was before. with the previous exhaust setup, the engine performance felt too airy, loose and out of air (not enough to exhaust). i do not have the corect wording to desrcibe it, but i know how it felt (which is terrible).
with the new modified setup, performance feels more tight (like air squeezes thru), responsive and get up and go. i press the gas, and it goes, not sluggish or struggling.
i believe the mbrp exhaust and other high performance aftermarket is better suited for better modified and higher output engines (turbo, n/a with lots of work), but from what i have experienced, does not play nice with my stock car.
-chris
[ 01-04-2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: chris_k ]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no dyno here my friend, but believe me, i got back most of my torgue!!
the engine is more responsive, and not as sluggish as it was before. with the previous exhaust setup, the engine performance felt too airy, loose and out of air (not enough to exhaust). i do not have the corect wording to desrcibe it, but i know how it felt (which is terrible).
with the new modified setup, performance feels more tight (like air squeezes thru), responsive and get up and go. i press the gas, and it goes, not sluggish or struggling.
i believe the mbrp exhaust and other high performance aftermarket is better suited for better modified and higher output engines (turbo, n/a with lots of work), but from what i have experienced, does not play nice with my stock car.
the kamikaze race header and cai is still on the engine, and my setup with the hybrid exhaust works very well for me. when i hit it hard beyond 5000rpm gently, the engine wakes up, baaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, and i tell the others (that dare to ask!), this is the small and quick zetec 16v non turbo!
-chris
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The low end torque loss you are describing is the cause of the HUGE Kamikaze 4-1 header.
The collector is 2.5in, correct?
And the primaries are also fairly large and close to the collector, right?
The header is overkill for an engine that is close to stock, if you were to replace that with a FocusSport(4-1, smaller primaries and collector is proper position) or even a Focus Central(4-2-1, smaller tubing) - You would have gotten that Torque back that you lost.
And as opposed to really messing up your high quality MBRP, you could have welded in a single 28in Magnaflow resonator that would have more than taken away your droning problem, and still left you with the performance you desire.
I still can't believe you hacked up a gorgeous system like the MBRP to put the stock muffler and the ass ugly and restrictive box in the rear!
- Drew
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The collector is 2.5in, correct?
And the primaries are also fairly large and close to the collector, right?
The header is overkill for an engine that is close to stock, if you were to replace that with a FocusSport(4-1, smaller primaries and collector is proper position) or even a Focus Central(4-2-1, smaller tubing) - You would have gotten that Torque back that you lost.
And as opposed to really messing up your high quality MBRP, you could have welded in a single 28in Magnaflow resonator that would have more than taken away your droning problem, and still left you with the performance you desire.
I still can't believe you hacked up a gorgeous system like the MBRP to put the stock muffler and the ass ugly and restrictive box in the rear!
- Drew
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14,609 Posts
So you are not using you rear tail pipe piece? I need that part exactly to use on my system! Do you want to sell it? I actually need it to see if it will do waht I want it to do so I can send it to the US to get fitted in 3". But I am still interested in the pipeing, you can even keep the chrome tip.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">once again i agree with drew. this loss of torque is due to the kamikazi, not the MBRP. while the noise is due to the design of the exhaust, the torque is not. i have the MBRP on my car and i only felt an overall power increase up top, no torque loss at all.Originally posted by focusownerskid:
The low end torque loss you are describing is the cause of the HUGE Kamikaze 4-1 header.
The collector is 2.5in, correct?
And the primaries are also fairly large and close to the collector, right?
The header is overkill for an engine that is close to stock, if you were to replace that with a FocusSport(4-1, smaller primaries and collector is proper position) or even a Focus Central(4-2-1, smaller tubing) - You would have gotten that Torque back that you lost.
And as opposed to really messing up your high quality MBRP, you could have welded in a single 28in Magnaflow resonator that would have more than taken away your droning problem, and still left you with the performance you desire.
I still can't believe you hacked up a gorgeous system like the MBRP to put the stock muffler and the ass ugly and restrictive box in the rear!
- Drew![]()
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the kamikazi header is HUGE and the design is made for top end horsepower with losses to bottom end torque. rather than putting a big bottle neck at the very end of your system i would have at least tried going to a different header or even an ORP with your stock header.
Nate
my exhaust is now quiet.
i went to a local mechanic, they removed the mbrp muffler, and tailpipe, welded in the stock tailpipe box and muffler. they did a very excellent job.
The mbrp resonator is still there. Paid $50 for setup. believe it or not, i actually regained most of my engine performance back, than with the aftermarket exhaust. there is no longer chugging and sluggishness uphills and passing on the street and freeways.
my car is quiet and quick as it should be, not loud and slow as it was before.
when i pass the other cars, they are question themselves, what kind of car is that? oh it is a focus, a quick car.
chris
i went to a local mechanic, they removed the mbrp muffler, and tailpipe, welded in the stock tailpipe box and muffler. they did a very excellent job.
The mbrp resonator is still there. Paid $50 for setup. believe it or not, i actually regained most of my engine performance back, than with the aftermarket exhaust. there is no longer chugging and sluggishness uphills and passing on the street and freeways.
my car is quiet and quick as it should be, not loud and slow as it was before.
when i pass the other cars, they are question themselves, what kind of car is that? oh it is a focus, a quick car.
chris
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2,226 Posts
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
hi guys, thanks for all your comments and help guiding me in the right direction.
all this performance stuff is real confusing, especially with the issues regarding headers and exhaust performance etc. first off, the kamikaze header isn't so bad itself, but it is sort of a overkill for my stock system. surprisingly, the performance have improved ALOT after the mbrp was taken out, the engine is more responsive and torquey. when i drive my car, i hit the gas, and it just takes off, like it did the first day i got the car believe me or not. when the mbrp was there (and kamikaze header), the car was sluggish, but had lots of top end power (if i drive that fast on the freeway, in which i do not).
the mechanics did a good job at putting back my stock exhaust system, and it does not look insanely that ugly lol. my mbrp system was not "hacked up" or destroyed in anyway. The last two sections were simply detached and unbolted from the system. the mbrp resonator is there for the performance, mechanics advised me. it looks stock from behind, with that yes, nasty tailpipe. the sleeper look isn't so bad folks! i've thought about getting a tip for it, which is no big deal! lol!
i did make a huge mistake on purchasing a kamikaze race header and mbrp combo, and lost all that low end torque (but gained top end power, i thought it was supposed to the opposite effect lol). i am glad the stock system helped get back most of the low end torgue after the mbrp was taken out.
i will need a new header that is designed to put out a good balance of low and high-end power. How about Bat's shorty header? it is inexpensive compared to the other headers and should provide the same gains or not..i do not want to buy an expensive race header and lose low-end power.
anyway, i'm saving up to get new 17inch rims/tires and to get my wings west kit painted soon. my hid's look real schweeet and i am damn happy with my ride. now, it is more quiet, and has more power, the sleeper focus edition.
chris
all this performance stuff is real confusing, especially with the issues regarding headers and exhaust performance etc. first off, the kamikaze header isn't so bad itself, but it is sort of a overkill for my stock system. surprisingly, the performance have improved ALOT after the mbrp was taken out, the engine is more responsive and torquey. when i drive my car, i hit the gas, and it just takes off, like it did the first day i got the car believe me or not. when the mbrp was there (and kamikaze header), the car was sluggish, but had lots of top end power (if i drive that fast on the freeway, in which i do not).
the mechanics did a good job at putting back my stock exhaust system, and it does not look insanely that ugly lol. my mbrp system was not "hacked up" or destroyed in anyway. The last two sections were simply detached and unbolted from the system. the mbrp resonator is there for the performance, mechanics advised me. it looks stock from behind, with that yes, nasty tailpipe. the sleeper look isn't so bad folks! i've thought about getting a tip for it, which is no big deal! lol!
i did make a huge mistake on purchasing a kamikaze race header and mbrp combo, and lost all that low end torque (but gained top end power, i thought it was supposed to the opposite effect lol). i am glad the stock system helped get back most of the low end torgue after the mbrp was taken out.
i will need a new header that is designed to put out a good balance of low and high-end power. How about Bat's shorty header? it is inexpensive compared to the other headers and should provide the same gains or not..i do not want to buy an expensive race header and lose low-end power.
anyway, i'm saving up to get new 17inch rims/tires and to get my wings west kit painted soon. my hid's look real schweeet and i am damn happy with my ride. now, it is more quiet, and has more power, the sleeper focus edition.
chris
so you took out two of the three sections of the MBRP? why not just take out the last part and sell the system. with the $ from that you can probably be pretty close to getting a FC race header. the FC has much smaller piping and the 4-2-1 design will give you a lot more torque than the 4-1 design of the kamikazi (and a little more than the 4-1 of FS.) if you're looking for torque without too much noise that will help you a good deal.
seriously, your mechanics are pretty stupid if they're telling you that the middle section of the MBRP is the only part giving you any performance gains. you're now running open/bottleneck/open/bottleneck which really does nothing. that open section between the two bottlenecks of the stock flex and stock exhaust isn't going to do anything for preformance. take off the last part of the MBRP, it's not doing anything as you have it, and sell it. use the money to buy something that will give you back (or add) some bottom end performance like the FC race header, FC TB, or udp.
the shorty header is going to loose even more power if you go back to your restrictive stock cat.
Nate
seriously, your mechanics are pretty stupid if they're telling you that the middle section of the MBRP is the only part giving you any performance gains. you're now running open/bottleneck/open/bottleneck which really does nothing. that open section between the two bottlenecks of the stock flex and stock exhaust isn't going to do anything for preformance. take off the last part of the MBRP, it's not doing anything as you have it, and sell it. use the money to buy something that will give you back (or add) some bottom end performance like the FC race header, FC TB, or udp.
the shorty header is going to loose even more power if you go back to your restrictive stock cat.
Nate
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2,547 Posts
If you do get a tip, do yourself a favor and have a muffler shop cut the fence post tailpipe off, then weld the new tip to the stump.
Nothing looks worse than a tip with a stock pipe floating around in it.
Nothing looks worse than a tip with a stock pipe floating around in it.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ditto...no way in hell the "hybrid" setup makes more power. I'm not saying there are huge gains to be made with any 2-1/4" exhaust, but with a CAI and header, you wouldn't lose power.
No offense, but my $$$ would be that it's in your head...I would have dyno'd stock, then dyno'd as parts are added and subtracted to see the real picture. When you're spending that much $$$ on mods, take the extra few $$$ and get dyno results too.
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489 Posts
wow chris, you have some ballz man...I think its cool you attempted what you did...
I wouldnt though, but anyway man listen to these guys they really know whats up...put the aftermarket exhaust back togather, sell it and buy a Bosal like you shouldev.......heehee
BOSAL CAT, COMING TO A WAITING LIST NEAR YOU!!!!
I wouldnt though, but anyway man listen to these guys they really know whats up...put the aftermarket exhaust back togather, sell it and buy a Bosal like you shouldev.......heehee
BOSAL CAT, COMING TO A WAITING LIST NEAR YOU!!!!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the MBRP comes in both 2 1/4" and 2 1/2" sizes. it's pretty much the general consensus that a 2 1/4" ehaust is the best for an na (normally aspirated, no turbo nitrous etc.) over a larger 2 1/2" wich will loose some bottom end.
Nate
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the MBRP comes in both 2 1/4" and 2 1/2" sizes. it's pretty much the general consensus that a 2 1/4" ehaust is the best for an na (normally aspirated, no turbo nitrous etc.) over a larger 2 1/2" wich will loose some bottom end.
Nate</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it would be interesting to see dyno's between some 2-1/4" and 2-1/2" setups on stock (or near-stock) cars. You MAY lose some bottom end on a 2-1/2 vs. a 2-1/4 on an n/a, but you also may pick up some top end power.
I can never find the article anymore, but some company tested between a stock exhaust, their 2-1/4, and their 2-1/2...it was on an Accord I think...they showed gains each step of the way as they increased the size (peak, that is...maybe they did lose on the bottom end with the 2-1/2).
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chris_f - You're mechanics are exactly right. The further you go from the head the lower the impact a mod has on power. Each volume the exhaust encounters(resonator, cat) acts like a dampner, shaving peak exhaust gas velocity, pressure and friction. The exhaust temperature is going down as well. The stock tailpipe and resonator won't cost much power - same as a tailpipe can't add it.
weas
p.s. Bottlenecks do not occur in the flow of a gas.
weas
p.s. Bottlenecks do not occur in the flow of a gas.
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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you mean? Do you mean slowing of velocity? Or no friction can be added to speed or slow?
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