you could just have air in your lines. 1st thing I would do is bleed them.

 

If his car is doing the same thing as mine did it definatly isn't air in the lines. The pedal is firm I would just have to push the brake pedal alot harder than usual to stop the car then it would brake normally after that first stop.

 

I noticed the same thing with my car also. I never noticed it untill I installed some EBC "red stuff" pads and thought they just didn't work well unless they had some heat in them.
Only would happen at the first stop in the morning. Weird.

 

what kind of pad material do you have? sometimes the harder pads take a little "warming up" to get them up to temp

 

EBC Redstuff pads definitely won't work as well as stock pads when cold. Even the cold/hot difference of the Hawk HPS is obvious. Any time you change your brake pads, the system should be flushed/bled. As it is, brake fluid should be flushed every couple years at the minimum to ensure all your ABS valves, caliper pistons, etc. are kept clean.

So, are you saying that the pedal sinks? Or are you saying they just don't have much bite to them? Also, what changes if any have been made to the braking system recently?

 

Actually, I can't remember if it sank, like pedal drop that I have had in other cars, or if it was firm, but no stopping power. I'll try to pay closer attetion tomorrow morning.

It looks like the car has pretty new pads, I've only had it for a few weeks, so I don't know when the pads were put on. The rear rotors looked like they could be replaced, kind of grooved.

 

Get in there, pull the wheel and figure out what pads are on there and pay close attention to the characteristics tomorrow AM :thumbup:

 

Will I be looking for a brand name on the pads?

 

Generally, there is a manufacturer part number or some identifying mark on the backing plate of the brake pads that is visible through the opening in the front of the caliper. My original Ford pads said "Focus SVT" and a part number or something along those lines. My Hawks say "HPS" and also have the part number on there. Unless they are Autozone generics, there should be something to identify the brand and type.

 

My car does the same thing. I've been told that it could be a sticky check valve or brake booster.

 

there is no check valve in a breaking system. lol if it did you wouldn't have breaks after you used them or they wouldn't release.

 

It hasn't really done it the past couple of days.:dunno:

 

same here

 

As long as they are stock or "normal" (i.e. non-racing) pads, if it does it again and the pedal is firm I'd suspect a vacuum assist problem. If you took off driving right away and immediately braked the engine could still be warming up and holding the higher idle which Ford uses to warm the cat up faster in order to meet ULEV emission requirements. At higher idle speeds you won't have much if any vacuum assist built up in the booster.

If the master cylinder were leaking you'd normally have ongoing pedal issues with a sinking pedal although the brakes may or may not continue to function normally. If the pedal stays rock hard the master cylinder is probably okay and I'd look into the vacuum assisted power brake booster that sits behind it along with the associated vacuum lines and check valves.

An easy way to test would be to stop the car after normal driving, put on the parking brake, and then turn the engine off while leaving your foot off the normal service brake. After a short while press down on the brake pedal and note how hard it is to press. If the booster is doing it's job and retaining vacuum you should have assist for a short while after the engine is off and should be able to get two or three full brake pedal application before it starts to get hard to push the pedal.

Although with the symptoms you're describing I wouldn't normally suspect air in the lines it may be worth doing a full flush and bleed of the fluid anyway. It's one of the service items that most people forget about and never change. Besides removing air in the bleeding process you'll also help extend the life of the calipers, master cylinder, and the ABS hydraulic control unit/pump.

 

As long as they are stock or "normal" (i.e. non-racing) pads, if it does it again and the pedal is firm I'd suspect a vacuum assist problem. If you took off driving right away and immediately braked the engine could still be warming up and holding the higher idle which Ford uses to warm the cat up faster in order to meet ULEV emission requirements. At higher idle speeds you won't have much if any vacuum assist built up in the booster.

Very helpful, I'm thinking it's this ^^^. The SVT seems to do strange things if I don't let it warm up for at least a good minute or two. All the info you provided is very helpful though.

 

So what is the deal here?

Increased pedal travel? = Air in brake system
Sinking pedal? Failing Master Cylinder or small leak in system
Increased effort? Failed booster or vac line problem, very unlikely failed abs unit limiting fluid flow to wheels
Pedal effort the same just not stopping/biting? Race pads to cool to function, or severely glazed pads rotors

 

^- sounds like a good summary. Isn't diagnosing stuff over the internet fun? Almost makes you have a little sympathy for the technicians at the dealer trying to decipher the customer's complaints.

 

Even at higher idle speeds there is enough vacuum to assist in braking. If there wasn't then every SVT driver would be crying about "poor braking performance in the morning." I have stage III cams in my zetec and I can take off immediately after start up and stop just fine. With the combination of higher idle and cams loping I should have far less manifold vacuum then a stock SVT.

adamw its obvious your problems are more serious than this.

 

It does sound like something else and that could be any number of things from possibly a sticking purge valve solenoid for the EVAP system or something else leaking vacuum at first startup to any number of things. But it's always best to rule out the most likely stuff first.

 

It could have something to do with the mystery drip that comes and goes, but sometimes seems to spray, maybe it's brake fluid. Is brake juice clear and slick?

And Eric, you have 2 SVTFs?

 

It could have something to do with the mystery drip that comes and goes, but sometimes seems to spray, maybe it's brake fluid. Is brake juice clear and slick?...

If you're getting a "spray" of fluid, that's not a good thing and is most likely your problem. Brake fluid is clear and slick, and is corrosive to paint and some rubber (and NEVER gets out of your floormats/carpet!). Is this drip/spray inside the car behind/on the clutch pedal? Or is it in the engine bay somewhere?

I just bought my first, but I'm hoping I can have 2 eventually, I'd like to change the exterior of 1 and keep the other in the dashing SVT attire.

"Dashing SVT attire" :thumbup: I like that. LOL

there is no check valve in a breaking system. lol if it did you wouldn't have breaks after you used them or they wouldn't release.

There is a check valve on the vacuum line that runs from the intake manifold to the brake booster.

 

That could be brake fluid. If it starts to get low you'd usually get the brake warning light in the dash flashing or coming on as there is a brake fluid level sensor in the reservoir. Probably worth investigating as any fluid leaking isn't a "good" thing.

And yes, I picked up a second SVTF at the end of last year which makes it the third one I've own/owned if you include the one Ford bought back years ago under the lemon law. What can I say, I like them.

 

I just bought my first, but I'm hoping I can have 2 eventually, I'd like to change the exterior of 1 and keep the other in the dashing SVT attire.

 

Got mine looked at today and as it turns out it was the brake pads. The front to be exact. When I bought the car I assumed they were stock but apparently not.

 

So what did you do? keep the pads or swap them for stock?

 

I decided to keep them. It may be somewhat of a safety issue, but its not a problem with the car. So ill keep them for now and when the brakes need to be done ill go back to stock. No reason to a replace a "good" part haha.

 

I have fixed a couple svtf's with this concern by replacing front brake pads and resurfacing the rotors.

 

Clarification on my last post- fixed by replacing pads with Ford pads, not motorcraft or any others, Ford ones seem to work best.

 

um motorcraft= ford

 

No motorcraft and ford genuine parts are different trust me I install both everyday I'm a ford tech.