[slidemaster]

We recently held an open track event at willow springs raceway......Great turnout of SVT foci....ALL had oil overheating issues after 10 minutes on the track...SVT claims that they need owners to report these problems...So guys get on the phone so we might get a fix asap...we bought these cars for a reason!!!

800 fordsvt

 

[SonicBluSVT 02']

I think this was posted a while ago after a bunch of you went. It appears it has only happened to those who have been autoxing cause they said typical everyday driving they have no problems overheating.

 

[belacyrf]

Allan, I called them twice, and they asked for VINS!!!! I mean I do not feel comfortable giving any arm of Ford my VIN, for them to troubleshoot a problem that I experienced while pushing my car to the limit. I can just see my next warranty visit to Ford, being an eye opener.

 

[slidemaster]

Hey guy....appreciate what your saying talked to 3 different guys there and really worked it...anyway every wednesday there is a marketing /engineering meeting......
the SVT mainframe is NOT connected to FMC so your concerns although very logical....wouldnt be communicated to the warranty guys...the volume of VINs would dictate the action.. the more the number the higher the priority

 

[belacyrf]

Ok.. thanks Allan.. I just needed some re-assurance, because in my mind, it freaked me a bit.

David

 

[01sportwagon]

I just called again and they told me that they have not heard of this problem… whatever…

Anyway, I mentioned that I was checking to find out what the temperature range of the oil temp gauge was. He said that he needed to check with the Engineer. He put me on hold and came back a few minutes later and said that he needed my VIN number. I believe this is a tactic used to scare you off; I however, was not afraid. I told him that I did not have my VIN with me and that I was only looking for the temp range. Then I asked him if he could tell me why he needed my VIN for this information? There was an uncomfortable quite on the phone and then he said that the oil temp gauge works off of the Plato Scale and there was not a direct degree correlation between the two. It was more of an idiot light then a temp gauge. I then asked him if the Speedometer worked the same way… He answered no, but I don’t think he found it as funny as I did.

I did a search on the web for Plato Scale and found that it is related to Specific Density and can also be called a Saccharometer. Do your homework. Learn what this is and why they would use it to represent the oil temp. And find out why this scale is related mostly with Breweries… and they said that drinking beer never teaches you anything.

I am going to check with a chemist friend of mine this weekend for some more help. But as far as I can tell, this gauge is based on the combination of temp and pressure. I don’t understand why they can’t tell us (even within 5 degrees) of what the temp range is. The oil pump pressure would have much more of an effect on the equasion then altitude.

We just need to find out what is happening; and to do that, we need to pester SVT for answers.

Sorry for the double post but this topic is posted in different areas…

 

[01sportwagon]

I spoke with my chemist friend this weekend, and even she had to look up Plato Scale before lending any answer. She had never heard of it before, but she understood what it was measuring.

Let me cut to the chase and let you know what she said. The biggest factors for this gauge would be specific density of the oil and the temperature of the oil. (We knew this already.)

She said using a thicker oil and/or an oil cooler would have the biggest effect. (We knew this already as well) What is happening is as the oil heats up it becomes thinner. The thinner oil does not support the load at the higher RPM’s as well as it did when it was thicker.

We do not know at what temp/RPM/viscosity combination this happens and I think this is why SVT is not giving us a straight answer.

So here is what I’m going to try for the next mid-Summer track event: Mobil1 Red (15w-50). When the oil heats up and thins out, it will still be thicker at the same temp/RPM in relation to Mobil1 Blue (5w-30). This should support the bearing loads much better when it is super hot (109 F) and should be reflected in the “oil temp” gauge as not as high.

This is posted on the Mobil1 website for the Red cap version:
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 15W-50 is perfect for hot-running or heavily loaded vehicles and high-tech imported cars. It offers an extra level of protection, even under extreme use.

Also listed was:
-Excellent for supercharged and turbocharged engines, muscle cars and amateur racers.
-The highest viscosity Mobil 1 available.
-Race proven.
-Superior high-temperature protection for high-performance and high-revving cars.
-Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ 15W-50 is factory fill in Ford Mustang Cobra R.

http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

What can it hurt? I’m not saying an oil cooler is out of the question, just that it will be installed after the warranty is done. It is a lot easier to remove the 15w-50 then the oil cooler if there are any problems.

Also, if you guys in the “normal” ZX3 don’t think you are facing these same issues, you may be gravely mistaken. And if you don’t want to go to Mobil1 Red… try the Green cap (10w-30)

Here is the link to the other discussion chain:
http://www.focaljet.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21&Number=677413&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Remember, this is not official from SVT and we still need to keep on them for an answer…

 

[SlickShoes]

Will a thicker oil increase oil pressure? Meaning more stress on gaskets and seals? Especially at high RPMs?

I remember working for Valvoline after high school (Senior Oil Lube Technician

) and we used to see these people come in a put 20w50 in their brand new Civic's. Within 15k miles, rear main seals leaking like a sum-bish, among others. Not good.

I'd still really like to see some other people's oil analysis's. Though I was only running Mobil-1 5w30, my oil had very little metals in it, showing great protection even with a good deal of dirt in it.

 

[01sportwagon]

Slick- That is a great question, and I would have to agree with your thinking that it could increase pressure... but did you notice your oil pressure dropping when the "temp" gauge was reading high? Mine didn't, but the temp gauge is based on the oil’s thickness. What does this mean? I think the oil pressure regulator in the oil pump should adjust for this.

My thinking is based on relativity. We need the oil to perform "normally" at higher temps. How can we do this? We can cool the oil externally or use oil that can handle the higher temps.

I am not suggesting 15w-50 for everyday driving, just when we hit the track and can expect the temps to be 100+. In SoCal in the desert, that is about 6 months out of the year.

I don’t profess to know the answer. I’m just guessing along with the rest of you while we wait for SVT to shed some light… hopefully soon. Also, maybe the argument can be made that Mobil1 Red is too thick and we should try Green. But you and I use Blue and we were sitting on the side of the track that day; we both know that Blue does not work up at those temps/RPMs.

Maybe we should list the viscosity of the oil we were all using that day (those of us having this problem). You and I were using Mobil1 Blue (5w-30). How about the rest of you? Bela?

 

[airforcefocus]

Regular ZX3 here. I have been using that exact same oil that Sportwagon suggested for almost a year. I have had no issues with leaks or excessive wear. I think that a good synthetic 15/w40 or 10/w40 would suffice as well. Take a look at what is the suggested oil weight in the European Focus. I belive it's 10/w40.

In fact, I have noticed a reduction in the amount of "seeping" from the seals. I took my valve cover off today to check for wear and my cams are still brand new. no problems there either. Within the crankshaft bearings and such, where the tolerances are very fine, older non-synthetic oils have caused varnish and other contamination to form when changed to a heavier weight. This has yet to be proven with synthetic. Yes, I guess I'm taking a risk, but my results so far have been golden. BTW: I also get flamed for running synthetic 90WT oil in my manual transaxle, but my random 3rd gear grinds have disappeared and my shifts feel much better (yes, even when cold). It's just what I do and I cannot suggest anyone do the same, but it's had good results so far.

 

[JaySD]

Well I am due for another oil change. Granted I hope to hell and back its cooler in sept but I wouldnt mind running some thicker oil to see if it makes a difference.

If there is no negative to running a 15w over a 5w anyway

 

[blackbird]

What can it hurt? I’m not saying an oil cooler is out of the question, just that it will be installed after the warranty is done. It is a lot easier to remove the 15w-50 then the oil cooler if there are any problems.

Also, if you guys in the “normal” ZX3 don’t think you are facing these same issues, you may be gravely mistaken. And if you don’t want to go to Mobil1 Red… try the Green cap (10w-30)

First, adding an aftermarket oil cooler should in no way do anything to the warranty unless you forget to hook up a return line and pump the engine dry. Then I could see them not covering it. It's more of a preventative maintenance item vice a performance item.

Second, I know a few people who use the 15W50 in some other domestic turbo four cylinders and it's probably OK if you a) only use it during hot weather, and/or b) do a lot of severe duty driving (i.e. racing).

Mobil 1 is a very good choice and I've used it exclusively in a number of my cars for many years. One thing about the 5W-30 is that after it starts to get older, it loses a little bit of its multi-viscosity properties and ends up providing around a 20W protection. The 10W-30 is a little bit better in that regard.

Another very good choice if you can find it would be Delvac 1 Synthetic (also made by Mobil). It's used a lot by truckers and is great to use in cars subject to severe service as well. Another good choice is Shell RotellaT Synthetic. Both are 5W-40 oils and stand up to hard driving very well and keep their multi-weight viscosities after a lot of hard miles.

Also, if anyone thought that FocalJet can get pretty technical, take a look at http://www.oilanalysis.com/message_boards/default.asp . There's a lot of people and chemists who get into some pretty in depth discussions just on oil. And to stand on my soapbox for today, never use a Fram filter. Do some research and you’ll see why.

 

[belacyrf]

I use Mobil 1 10w-30 in my car before the track. I am definately looking at the possibility of the permal-cool oil cooler kit for my car. I mean, if I do a custom kit, or just buy the permal cool, it's not going to be more than 250.00 so it's a cost that is worth while IMO!

01Sport... thanks again for keeping this on top. If I didn't run into a wealth of money problems with things breaking this past week, I would be purchasing my oil cooler this month. But I dunno anymore.

 

[gt3rs]

We recently held an open track event at willow springs raceway......Great turnout of SVT foci....ALL had oil overheating issues after 10 minutes on the track...SVT claims that they need owners to report these problems...So guys get on the phone so we might get a fix asap...we bought these cars for a reason!!!

800 fordsvt

Just got off the phone with a friend of a friend, who works in an office adjacent to the svt guys. The above is correct, need to call and give your VIN. Ask for Mark. They are not voiding warranties in any way.

Now for how the oil temp guage works. It is a calculation based on ambient temp, coolant temp, engine duty cycle, and rpm's. It is not reading the oil temperature. So it looks like the programming is off and they need to correct.

The only time to start worrying is if the coolant temperature starts to come up. I didn't have that problem, not sure about you CA guys.

This is good news to me.

 

[01sportwagon]

Huge developments!! But still no answer. Mark from SVT called me this morning (08/05). Yes you read that correctly… Mark called me back. (Bonus points for SVT!)

Anyway, Mark tells me that the “Oil Temp” gauge has nothing to do with the oil temp. In fact, there is no oil temp sensor on the car. This gauge uses three main readings: Radiator Fluid temp, Intake charge (ambient air temp), and duty cycle (RPM). With these readings it calculates the conditions the car is running in and, at predetermined points, warns the driver of low risk, normal risk, high risk conditions that could possibly damage the engine. This could be why we were seeing such quick gauge movements from ¾ to Red.

Here is the worst part, adding an oil cooler or using a heavier oil will not effect this gauge at all because the gauge is not reading the oil’s temp!!! This is also why they can’t give us a temp range… because the oil temp has nothing to do with moving the gauge.

Mark agreed that it was a little silly to have a gauge marked Oil Temp and not be related to the oil temp. He also agreed that having SVT’s sitting on the sidelines while other Foci and manufactures were out having a great time on the track did not fare well with the PR committee. So he needs our help to fix it.

Mark indicated that SVT needs VIN numbers to log the problem. The VIN gives them a way to track the problem and associate it with a model/year so they can send out a TSB. He also understands the hesitancy of owners to report this due to the conditions where the problem arises. But he wanted me to pass along to you not to be worried, because they are not out to get you and in fact encourage you to report problems at both ends of the spectrum of driving. This is the only way they can fix the problem. Isn’t that what we really want, a fix?

In order for them to help us, we need to help them. By the way, Mark has my VIN number. Call them 800-Ford-SVT (800-3673-788) and ask for Mark.

gt3rs - No problems with water temp here.

 

[belacyrf]

GREAT NEWS Joel..thanks so much. I'll call them with my VIN today!

That oil temp gauge SUCKS!! LOL

 

[deezlins]

i feel tricked now, they didnt even give us a real oil temp gauge, those bastards

 

[GetImpact]

i feel tricked now, they didnt even give us a real oil temp gauge, those bastards

LOL!

A lot ain't real.

Those weren't real clamps they put on the intake either. They were clips. Clamps are adjustable, reusable.

The DSI is a plastic toy.

The throttle body... also a plastic toy.

The Dual-mass flywheel... uhmmm... well... I won't get into that, but at least it is not plastic (I don't think).

 

[Dhananjaya]

OK, so we don't actually have an oil temp gauge. Instead we have the gauge equivalent of the check engine light. Change the oil symbol to Rx or a red cross or something, and hey! How many cars have such a sophisticated gauge?

that's my vote!

It's just plain silly they don't label it for what it is, though!

DJ
Getting ready to admire his gauge cluster with newfound fondness tomorrow

 

[01sportwagon]

Dhana- According to my Corvette friend, the Z06 uses the same non-oil temp oil temp gauge...

Have you guys sent in your VIN numbers yet?