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premium question

626 Views 17 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  Jimmy
will someone here please kinda define why you aren't sposed to use premium gas in most street driven cars, such as our foci for instance. my friend doesn't believe that it can be harmful to the car, he thinks its juss gives hp b/c of less lead..
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Octane is a rating of how slow the gasoline burns. Simply put, gasoline is a chain of hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbon chains all burns at the same speed, but higher octane fuels contain longer hydrocarbon chains, and therefore take longer to burn completely, so it's said 92 octane burns "slower" than 87. For high octane fuel, this means more stored energy per fuel particle, because it's burning at the same rate, but for a longer period of time. By advancing your spark timing (on the focus, this is done with a chip) you can make the spark happen earlier than stock, to take advantage of the longer burn time of the fuel.

In a healthy engine using the right octane, the spark happens right before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke. a wave of flame makes it's way from the spark toward the piston. It takes a few milliseconds to happen, but in a well tuned car, just as the piston is starting to move downward, the force of the fuel igniting sends the piston rocketing downward.

Wrong octane is bad!

Let's look at what happens in a high performance engine that's supposed to use high octane fuel:
On a car with high compression or turbo, the fuel burns relatively faster because of the higher temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber. If you use a faster burning low-octane fuel, the spark happens too early. The wave of flames first hits the piston while it's still trying to move upward, or just as it hits top dead center. There's nowhere for the flame and pressure to expand to. For a few milliseconds, the flame is causing extreme pressure on the piston, the head gasket, and the cylinder head. The spark plug gets extremely hot. With continued use, you may char or crack the insulator of the spark plug, or worse yet, burn or break an electrode off. This condition is known as PRE-IGNITION, often called PING, KNOCK. Needless to say, this is bad news.

On a side note, if you have carbon deposits on the piston face, the carbon can remain hot enough to ignite the fuel mixture without a spark. Sometimes, as the piston approaches top dead center on the compression stroke, the fuel will ignite before the spark. The source of the flames is from the deposits on the piston head instead of the spark plug (can also happen from deposits on the cylinder head), but the effects are the same. High temps and high pressure in the combustion chamber causing carnage on the upper internals. This is DETONATION, but it's also commonly called PING or KNOCK.


Now that that's out of the way...

In an econobox engine like a stock Zetec from a Ford Focus, they tuned the PCM to run on 87 octane, relatively fast burning fuel. Not as much energy in each fuel injected squirt, but it gets the job done quite nicely.

If you run high octane on an engine meant for low octane, the fuel doesn't get a chance to burn completely. This means you have parts of "spent" hydrocarbon chains (basically, unburned fuel), that can damage your catalytic convertor, can cause carbon deposits and build-up on your piston face, Cyl head, valves, and anywhere else the exhaust flows. Eventually, these carbon deposits can cause a mild form of detonation that becomes more evident whenever you go back to using the correct octane (faster burning) fuel, and therefore creating what some people call "engine dependency of high octane".

I hope this helps a little. If I find a better explanation, I'll link to it. I was just having this discussion w/ my co worker yesterday.
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Octane is a rating of how slow the gasoline burns. Simply put, gasoline is a chain of hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbon chains all burns at the same speed, but higher octane fuels contain longer hydrocarbon chains, and therefore take longer to burn completely, so it's said 92 octane burns "slower" than 87. For high octane fuel, this means more stored energy per fuel particle, because it's burning at the same rate, but for a longer period of time. By advancing your spark timing (on the focus, this is done with a chip) you can make the spark happen earlier than stock, to take advantage of the longer burn time of the fuel.

In a healthy engine using the right octane, the spark happens right before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke. a wave of flame makes it's way from the spark toward the piston. It takes a few milliseconds to happen, but in a well tuned car, just as the piston is starting to move downward, the force of the fuel igniting sends the piston rocketing downward.

Wrong octane is bad!

Let's look at what happens in a high performance engine that's supposed to use high octane fuel:
On a car with high compression or turbo, the fuel burns relatively faster because of the higher temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber. If you use a faster burning low-octane fuel, the spark happens too early. The wave of flames first hits the piston while it's still trying to move upward, or just as it hits top dead center. There's nowhere for the flame and pressure to expand to. For a few milliseconds, the flame is causing extreme pressure on the piston, the head gasket, and the cylinder head. The spark plug gets extremely hot. With continued use, you may char or crack the insulator of the spark plug, or worse yet, burn or break an electrode off. This condition is known as PRE-IGNITION, often called PING, KNOCK. Needless to say, this is bad news.

On a side note, if you have carbon deposits on the piston face, the carbon can remain hot enough to ignite the fuel mixture without a spark. Sometimes, as the piston approaches top dead center on the compression stroke, the fuel will ignite before the spark. The source of the flames is from the deposits on the piston head instead of the spark plug (can also happen from deposits on the cylinder head), but the effects are the same. High temps and high pressure in the combustion chamber causing carnage on the upper internals. This is DETONATION, but it's also commonly called PING or KNOCK.


Now that that's out of the way...

In an econobox engine like a stock Zetec from a Ford Focus, they tuned the PCM to run on 87 octane, relatively fast burning fuel. Not as much energy in each fuel injected squirt, but it gets the job done quite nicely.

If you run high octane on an engine meant for low octane, the fuel doesn't get a chance to burn completely. This means you have parts of "spent" hydrocarbon chains (basically, unburned fuel), that can damage your catalytic convertor, can cause carbon deposits and build-up on your piston face, Cyl head, valves, and anywhere else the exhaust flows. Eventually, these carbon deposits can cause a mild form of detonation that becomes more evident whenever you go back to using the correct octane (faster burning) fuel, and therefore creating what some people call "engine dependency of high octane".

I hope this helps a little. If I find a better explanation, I'll link to it. I was just having this discussion w/ my co worker yesterday.


Cliff notes... high octane + Focus = not good.
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[quote

Cliff notes... high octane + Focus = not good.


[/QUOTE]

lol- what if I have always been using 89/90 (depending on where I go) on my ZX3? Should I switch nowto 87?
I've read a lot of explanations, but that was by far the best
Don't forget, the SVT Focus requires 91+
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2
ax0n owned this thread
I've read a lot of explanations, but that was by far the best
Don't forget, the SVT Focus requires 91+
and even more for a sc one!
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3
Octane is a rating of how slow the gasoline burns. Simply put, gasoline is a chain of hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbon chains all burns at the same speed, but higher octane fuels contain longer hydrocarbon chains, and therefore take longer to burn completely, so it's said 92 octane burns "slower" than 87. For high octane fuel, this means more stored energy per fuel particle, because it's burning at the same rate, but for a longer period of time. By advancing your spark timing (on the focus, this is done with a chip) you can make the spark happen earlier than stock, to take advantage of the longer burn time of the fuel.

In a healthy engine using the right octane, the spark happens right before the piston reaches the top of it's stroke. a wave of flame makes it's way from the spark toward the piston. It takes a few milliseconds to happen, but in a well tuned car, just as the piston is starting to move downward, the force of the fuel igniting sends the piston rocketing downward.

Wrong octane is bad!

Let's look at what happens in a high performance engine that's supposed to use high octane fuel:
On a car with high compression or turbo, the fuel burns relatively faster because of the higher temperature and pressure in the combustion chamber. If you use a faster burning low-octane fuel, the spark happens too early. The wave of flames first hits the piston while it's still trying to move upward, or just as it hits top dead center. There's nowhere for the flame and pressure to expand to. For a few milliseconds, the flame is causing extreme pressure on the piston, the head gasket, and the cylinder head. The spark plug gets extremely hot. With continued use, you may char or crack the insulator of the spark plug, or worse yet, burn or break an electrode off. This condition is known as PRE-IGNITION, often called PING, KNOCK. Needless to say, this is bad news.

On a side note, if you have carbon deposits on the piston face, the carbon can remain hot enough to ignite the fuel mixture without a spark. Sometimes, as the piston approaches top dead center on the compression stroke, the fuel will ignite before the spark. The source of the flames is from the deposits on the piston head instead of the spark plug (can also happen from deposits on the cylinder head), but the effects are the same. High temps and high pressure in the combustion chamber causing carnage on the upper internals. This is DETONATION, but it's also commonly called PING or KNOCK.


Now that that's out of the way...

In an econobox engine like a stock Zetec from a Ford Focus, they tuned the PCM to run on 87 octane, relatively fast burning fuel. Not as much energy in each fuel injected squirt, but it gets the job done quite nicely.

If you run high octane on an engine meant for low octane, the fuel doesn't get a chance to burn completely. This means you have parts of "spent" hydrocarbon chains (basically, unburned fuel), that can damage your catalytic convertor, can cause carbon deposits and build-up on your piston face, Cyl head, valves, and anywhere else the exhaust flows. Eventually, these carbon deposits can cause a mild form of detonation that becomes more evident whenever you go back to using the correct octane (faster burning) fuel, and therefore creating what some people call "engine dependency of high octane".

I hope this helps a little. If I find a better explanation, I'll link to it. I was just having this discussion w/ my co worker yesterday.

I use 87,93& 97 octane gas in my car. No superchip, no mods done to engine. Nothing. I don't have an issue using either gas. Does not even affect my engine. I have been doing this for 6months now. Not a single problem.
I use 87,93& 97 octane gas in my car. No superchip, no mods done to engine. Nothing. I don't have an issue using either gas. Does not even affect my engine. I have been doing this for 6months now. Not a single problem.
Reread his post, the affects will not be noticable immediately, because you are building up deposits from the non-burned fuel, engines are made to withstand this every now and again, but repeadtely over long periods of times, you will notice things start to go wrong. If you've been doing this for six months, and say you haven't had a single problem, great, but you need to open up the engine and other mechancals to see what you're actually doing. Why waste the extra money on 93 and especially 97 if you get no benefits, or very little, sure high octane guess sometimes contains more detergents to clean some of the stuff up, but 87 octane also has detergents as mandated by the feds.
I use 87,93& 97 octane gas in my car. No superchip, no mods done to engine. Nothing. I don't have an issue using either gas. Does not even affect my engine. I have been doing this for 6months now. Not a single problem.
Reread his post, the affects will not be noticable immediately, because you are building up deposits from the non-burned fuel, engines are made to withstand this every now and again, but repeadtely over long periods of times, you will notice things start to go wrong. If you've been doing this for six months, and say you haven't had a single problem, great, but you need to open up the engine and other mechancals to see what you're actually doing. Why waste the extra money on 93 and especially 97 if you get no benefits, or very little, sure high octane guess sometimes contains more detergents to clean some of the stuff up, but 87 octane also has detergents as mandated by the feds.
I don't use this all of the time. Just once in a while. I go from the 87 to 93 to 97 once in a while. Not all the time.
I don't use this all of the time. Just once in a while. I go from the 87 to 93 to 97 once in a while. Not all the time.

We're all slaves to routine. I used to put 91+ in my 1989 Ford Festiva. I promise it ran better
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So I just picked up my new SVTF and it says use premium 91 octane .. so am I to use it or not use it ?

Fire
Your computer is tuned for 91, so go for it. That's required to give you the best performance.


=dRe=

So I just picked up my new SVTF and it says use premium 91 octane .. so am I to use it or not use it ?

Fire
See less See more
I use 87,93& 97 octane gas in my car. No superchip, no mods done to engine. Nothing. I don't have an issue using either gas. Does not even affect my engine. I have been doing this for 6months now. Not a single problem.
You havent done it long enough to cause any NOTICABLE problems. If you use 97 fairly often, I bet your cat is on its 9th life. Just because nothing has broken yet, doesnt mean there arent problems. OBD-II computers are pretty smart. It can compensate pretty well for most problems for a while, but that doesnt mean everything's kosher.
if higher octane hurts your engine, then what about say a turbo setup that requires higher octane, does this hurt your car as well?
So are engines meant to either run low or high octane?? The owners manual in my P5 says 87, 89, 91 or 93.


So I guess all this chit that the fuel companies have been feeding us over the years about premium being better for your engine is just that. Chit. Talk of detergents that help clean injectors and whatnot.
For me, it's...

87 octane if I don't plan on racing.
93 octane if I do plan on racing, as nitrous is right up there with a turbo/supercharger.
if higher octane hurts your engine, then what about say a turbo setup that requires higher octane, does this hurt your car as well?
No, because those cars will burn it faster than your car can. Higher pressure = higher temperature. Higher temperature = faster burning.

In your Focus, it takes too long to burn all the fuel. In reality, a lot of it doesnt even burn at all. It just gets dumped into your exhaust, and messes with your emissions control stuff.

In a forced-induction car (or any high-compression car), the higher pressure makes the temperatures get hotter, which makes the fuel burn faster and more efficiently. So it all gets burned off, thus no damage.
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