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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I drive an Electric Focus. I live out in the middle of nowhere. Cold in the winter, Hot in the summer, thirty miles away from a Ford dealer. I have a college degree, two years diesel training, and I burn more leaves in one season at my house than most people will burn in their lifetime. I have built several engines including air cooled VWs. And most of all, I have driven the Tesla Model S with a heavy foot. My Focus is a base model( fully loaded), frosted glass color, all stock Electric Lease at 268.00 plus va taxes, plus wear tear and About 25 extra a month for about fifty thousand mile/ .20 per additional mile. Thirty six month lease. Why buy when ford will buy my next battery. I would buy a tesla though. Would you keep your cell phone or your laptop longer than six years? Better yet , would you expect to get a lot of money for it if you do try to sell after six years? Then don't buy an electric car! It is the same concept. I mean , the drivetrain will last forever! And with only a few moving parts , it is easily repaired. But you are not buying a car as much as you are buying a battery. Technology is getting ready to hit a time warp!! Don't get stuck with anything for to long. My 2013 focus electric will be relic of the past in a couple years. Consider these, (lithium air-Bill Gates and IBM, Flow Battery-General Electric, hydrogen Fuel Cell battery, and Sodium Air.) These are in production right now and will make heavy lithium ion obsolete, very very quickly. Two of these are in the area of 1000 miles per charge, the others , 249 plus per charge. Just think of it like you would a cellular phone, charger and all. A lease payment would be like the phone contract and the car is like the upgrade or free phone. Do the math, leasing a Ford focus electric should be like driving a car that is paid off that requires gas, oil changes and expensive services. Service is grease and tire rotation every twenty thousand miles. Any questions ?
 

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Go ahead - ask me how Chalz' huge, bulging, fearle
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Well lithium air tech is nice but not conducive to mobile applications as it requires the cell to be exposed to dry atmospheric oxygen and the potential for electrolyte to leak in such a configuration rises steeply. Sodium is also intriguing. Low weight, high energy density, low cost.......oh wait. You can only recharge the cells 8 times then they're expired. Not useful at all on terra firma or in a car. Perhaps in space as an emergency power source.

I work at the bleeding edge of lithium ion manufacturing and create engineering trials on a near daily basis to expand horizons of that and other battery chemistries. There is a reason why Li-ion and Li-po are here to stay for quite some time.
 

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Dude you take fanboy to a whole new level!
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Well lithium air tech is nice but not conducive to mobile applications as it requires the cell to be exposed to dry atmospheric oxygen and the potential for electrolyte to leak in such a configuration rises steeply. Sodium is also intriguing. Low weight, high energy density, low cost.......oh wait. You can only recharge the cells 8 times then they're expired. Not useful at all on terra firma or in a car. Perhaps in space as an emergency power source.

I work at the bleeding edge of lithium ion manufacturing and create engineering trials on a near daily basis to expand horizons of that and other battery chemistries. There is a reason why Li-ion and Li-po are here to stay for quite some time.
And your response to the hydrogen fuel cell and General Electrics Flow Battery please. Yes lithium is the stuff that will turn the world isn't it? Or is it the water battery? (Hydrogen Fuel Cell). Invented in 1853 and landed America on the moon. Just in!! Toyota is going to stop production on the Prius. They will replace it with an all electric vehicle with a water battery. Must be real good. Water? Who would of thought of that? Except the oil companies are going to get hydrogen from oil and then tell you you have to by it. Don't be fooled, it is cheaper and easier to get it from water. The Toyota use air to get oxogen(air has other gasses that interfere ). Much cleaner and efficient to use pure oxogen. when you split water and hydrogen with electricity( plugging it in) it has available to it, pure Oxogen and pure hydrogen. True zero emission electric vehicle.( hydrogen fuel cell )
 

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I'm still a huge bio-diesel and vehicle-diesel fan. Wish I still had my jeep. Still not an electric/hybrid fan. Never have, probably never will due to the huge impact it takes on the environment and infrastructure.


Sent from somewhere using towers, gizmos andTapatalk 2
 

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What is the real life range of the Focus electric? By that I mean driving it without trying to maximize mileage and in all conditions.

How does the car drive compared to a normal Focus? Is it like hybrid models of cars where the steering feedback and suspension tuning were done for people who view driving as a nuisance rather than a pleasure?
 

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Go ahead - ask me how Chalz' huge, bulging, fearle
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The only thing flow batteries have going for them is the ability to "recharge" by purging and refilling the electrolytes similar to refueling an ICE car. Other than that, their components are expensive and complicated......and their energy density is pretty dismal.

As far as fuel cell stuff goes, I'm all for it.....except that it's woefully expensive....and that's the real point I'm trying to make. We "could" have a world full of Deloreans driving around powered by Mr. Fusions but don't because of the cost.....and cost is going to be biggest deciding factor for 99.9% of the vehicle buying public.

I'm glad you like your Focus Electric but don't kid yourself that your lease is going to keep you at the cutting edge of technology. In three years when Alan Mulally comes looking for his car back, vehicle capable battery tech is going to be right about where it is now....sucking hind tit of the oil industry.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
What is the real life range of the Focus electric? By that I mean driving it without trying to maximize mileage and in all conditions.

How does the car drive compared to a normal Focus? Is it like hybrid models of cars where the steering feedback and suspension tuning were done for people who view driving as a nuisance rather than a pleasure?
I get about 86 with ac on. Around 79 with heated seats , defrost, and heat on. Heat in this car gets hot fast and will burn you hands. Seriously. I drive sporty mostly highway and winding country roads. I coast the turns to slow and I brake long for a stop. It make me a safer driver anyways. I will get about five miles back on a thirty mile drive. Both action yield electricity to the battery. A whole lot more than the Prius. Ford has the best regen, at 97 percent energy capture. I pre heat and cool while I am plugged into the house before the trip by setting timer on phone as this does not use battery. The mileage is pretty steady. Even if you had to punch it, the computer will allow you to gain lost miles back through reserv. It learns your driving habits and adjusts as needed. It won't leave you hanging. Just don't pay attention to the battery gauge, only budget miles indicated. We plug up at most Chevy , Ford, Nissan dealers free of charge, anywhere, anytime. But it plugs into a regular outlet. We only charge on 110 unless we go out somewhere. We will top of while we shop. I have made it 104 mile on one charge . All expressway will yield around 90 miles with all off and fifty five miles per hour. It has variables like a gasoline powered car, but you just have to plan better.
 

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I might have to go drive one just to see if it runs well. Have your driven a regular Focus? I have an SE Sport (2012) that I like quite a bit. The tires are crap (Continentals) but thankfully they will wear out. If a Focus Electric drives similarly, I could see getting one. Please clarify what you mean by "if you have to punch it". I drive winding country roads on my way home once a week or so and while I guess I don't have to punch it, I always do. That is what owning a car is all about for me.

Thanks for the info.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The only thing flow batteries have going for them is the ability to "recharge" by purging and refilling the electrolytes similar to refueling an ICE car. Other than that, their components are expensive and complicated......and their energy density is pretty dismal.

As far as fuel cell stuff goes, I'm all for it.....except that it's woefully expensive....and that's the real point I'm trying to make. We "could" have a world full of Deloreans driving around powered by Mr. Fusions but don't because of the cost.....and cost is going to be biggest deciding factor for 99.9% of the vehicle buying public.

I'm glad you like your Focus Electric but don't kid yourself that your lease is going to keep you at the cutting edge of technology. In three years when Alan Mulally comes looking for his car back, vehicle capable battery tech is going to be right about where it is now....sucking hind tit of the oil industry.
It is expensive because big oil and the auto companies have said that to slow it down. Flow cell and Hydrogen fuel cells are electric propulsion systems. If they break away to soon without an electrical auto platform, it will fail and big oil and auto would lose big money. They slow it down and keep investors scared to wait for the battery electrics to reach full potential, wait for the battery material shortage, then sharply raise fuel prices and then introduce hydrogen made from oil not water. Then we get hooked on hydrogen electrics. Maybe burn it as we'll. But they need time so it is a no fail situation. The best way to do it is the oil and auto industry says hydrogen is green and that their intentions are to make electric cars with it. Then they say it is to expensive( buy time). Then when the battery materials become scarce, big oil starts a panic scare, Government subsidizes and pushes hard to solve make believe energy shortage, big oil baits with electric hydrogen car , then reinstate the internal combustion engine. Thirty percent less emissions then gasoline has they say because the car will use hydrogen with regular air. And they have control over us again!!! Hydrogen does not have the power of gasoline but it will cost . You better believe that. But their will be a push to make hydrogen from water though. That's when good old electric companies step in and sharply increase the price of electricity. Sounds familiar don't it?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I might have to go drive one just to see if it runs well. Have your driven a regular Focus? I have an SE Sport (2012) that I like quite a bit. The tires are crap (Continentals) but thankfully they will wear out. If a Focus Electric drives similarly, I could see getting one. Please clarify what you mean by "if you have to punch it". I drive winding country roads on my way home once a week or so and while I guess I don't have to punch it, I always do. That is what owning a car is all about for me.

Thanks for the info.
We'll, In order to accelerate quickly in a gasoline car, you need to get the RPMs up high, downshift for power, and then shift back before the engine blows up. In the electric, the response is ultra smooth with no downshifting because there is nothing to blow up. The motor loves to run at those very high RPMs. Very very smooth. I think they have some gas models that have the same type gear setup don't they ? I did drive a gas Focus. The truth is the electric propulsion system is by far superior. Imagine driving your car in second gear and you are traveling at 65 miles per hour . Use the second gear for ease of moving the car, now spin the motor very very fast. No shifting required. Or you can do it old school. I do when I drive my 79 c10, but it just ain't like it used to be. Noway. With absolutely no noise but the tires rolling on the pavement. You can even hear a slight shhhh noise coming from the brakes when you use them. You ever watched batman the movie. It kinda like a that. When you decelerate you can here a just a little of a whirling noise (like a space ship man)as the battery is being charged. The answer is I show everybody what it can do, if that is good enough for you. Do you believe me? You can touch at this auto show buddy!!!
 

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So no shifting? OK, that makes it a non-starter. I cannot own a car that doesn't have three working pedals. What a disappointment. I like the concept, but it sounds like yet another way in which the driver is made to accept the car doing more and him doing less. I like to drive so I don't want a car that takes things away from me. Oh well.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So no shifting? OK, that makes it a non-starter. I cannot own a car that doesn't have three working pedals. What a disappointment. I like the concept, but it sounds like yet another way in which the driver is made to accept the car doing more and him doing less. I like to drive so I don't want a car that takes things away from me. Oh well.
I like old school stuff to . I would never get rid of my truck. I keep some old pay phones and old tecky stuff in the back to. It is quite redundant stuff I like to tinker with too. Driving a gas banger is a hobby of mine too. Just something about controlled burning that keeps me alive. But I wouldn't use blow torch just to heat up a needle head either.i
 

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I care more for engaging than I do the technically most exacting solution. Cars have become to sterile in the past decade or so and this sounds like another step in that direction.
 

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It is expensive because big oil and the auto companies have said that to slow it down. Flow cell and Hydrogen fuel cells are electric propulsion systems. If they break away to soon without an electrical auto platform, it will fail and big oil and auto would lose big money. They slow it down and keep investors scared to wait for the battery electrics to reach full potential, wait for the battery material shortage, then sharply raise fuel prices and then introduce hydrogen made from oil not water. Then we get hooked on hydrogen electrics. Maybe burn it as we'll. But they need time so it is a no fail situation. The best way to do it is the oil and auto industry says hydrogen is green and that their intentions are to make electric cars with it. Then they say it is to expensive( buy time). Then when the battery materials become scarce, big oil starts a panic scare, Government subsidizes and pushes hard to solve make believe energy shortage, big oil baits with electric hydrogen car , then reinstate the internal combustion engine. Thirty percent less emissions then gasoline has they say because the car will use hydrogen with regular air. And they have control over us again!!! Hydrogen does not have the power of gasoline but it will cost . You better believe that. But their will be a push to make hydrogen from water though. That's when good old electric companies step in and sharply increase the price of electricity. Sounds familiar don't it?



Please document how big oil and auto companies have said flow cell tech is expensive just to slow it down.

You're not doing yourself any favors here bud. If you want to fanboi alternative energy systems, there are other outlets for you to explore. A lot of us here (myself included) are in favor of stepping out from beneath the big oil's shadow, but you're living about 30 years in the future pondering beneficial gains and ignoring current day hurdles.

Take some baby steps......like diesel/hybrid electric steps. Earth is not ready for a fully electric car yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
The amount of smug in this thread is unbelievable!
The power company does not turn systems down at night. too expensive . One light on is no different than one car plugged in. Scrubbers are being installed as we speak. Use it or loose it. Kind of like your converter. I really can't believe that you really say that power companies are putting more in the air and sewers than over a billion out of date cars whose emission systems stop working after three years. That just shows that you went


to public schools. My next objective is to go off grid. Ford has partnered with several companies to offer almost of the grids systems to focus electric owners for ten grand .What are you gonna say next. I gotta hear it! You act like a baby whose lost his sucker. Who are you protecting? Is oil in your blood? I'm sorry, it is isn't it? Ohhhh, you meant smug! No this is embarrassing. I push on though.
 

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Discussion Starter #18


Please document how big oil and auto companies have said flow cell tech is expensive just to slow it down.

You're not doing yourself any favors here bud. If you want to fanboi alternative energy systems, there are other outlets for you to explore. A lot of us here (myself included) are in favor of stepping out from beneath the big oil's shadow, but you're living about 30 years in the future pondering beneficial gains and ignoring current day hurdles.

Take some baby steps......like diesel/hybrid electric steps. Earth is not ready for a fully electric car yet.
I drive an electric car to end government waste and pyromaniacs. You will drive an electric before 2025. Green people are foolish and out of style. I spent years in a prison for children thinking about stuff. Saving the environment is not one of those. But getting stupid and wasteful spending to stop is my objective here. Buy gas and government takes in money. Don't buy gas, and they stop spending money on things that make us ignorant. It's that simple!!!! Oil has made people lazy and ignorant. There is a new movement brewing here my brother!My advice to you, is join the tea party movement!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #19


Please document how big oil and auto companies have said flow cell tech is expensive just to slow it down.

You're not doing yourself any favors here bud. If you want to fanboi alternative energy systems, there are other outlets for you to explore. A lot of us here (myself included) are in favor of stepping out from beneath the big oil's shadow, but you're living about 30 years in the future pondering beneficial gains and ignoring current day hurdles.

Take some baby steps......like diesel/hybrid electric steps. Earth is not ready for a fully electric car yet.
Thirty years in the future? Ok, electric cars were the norm from 1870 through to 1929. Detroit Electric, Parker Electric, Baker Electric, Oldsmobile Electric(that's right, Oldsmobile!), The Electric Car Company ( Thomas Edison), etc. this is nothing new. Electrics were on the road decades before the first Otto mobile ( Nicholas Otto , inventor of the four stroke engine.) these facts make me and all of the other electric car drivers eighty years late. Our great great grandparents drove electric cars, and they are laughing at you. Don't worry brother, we will be here for you ,causing the gas prices to go down. They need to get everybody drunk with gallons in order to kill the Electrics. But before those prices go up and you have to decide what to cut from your budget, do your research, slow down a bit and learn to drive Electrically.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I'm still a huge bio-diesel and vehicle-diesel fan. Wish I still had my jeep. Still not an electric/hybrid fan. Never have, probably never will due to the huge impact it takes on the environment and infrastructure.


Sent from somewhere using towers, gizmos andTapatalk 2
Yeah, I like the diesel thing to. I have a bean press I use for soy. It don't yield very much oil, but it there when I need it . If you did not already no, it is not hard to make biodiesel yourself. Don't get me wrong, I like to burn fuel but I just don't like to pay for it. It ain't about being green, it's about not having to pay for it. I'll drive a schoolbus with a gasoline engine if I could get the fuel for free. Do you know what a gasifier is ?
 
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