Ford Focus Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
dev,

can't read the writing on dyno sheet. what're your mods?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,351 Posts
Looks like:

Gude Cams
FC Pulley Kit
Vibrant Exhaust
JBA Header
Kent Cam Gears
Super Chip
FC TB
Cam Settings 0,0
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
So,
If the Race-header and flex only netted 5Hp at the wheels, that tells me that a "Shorty" + Hi-Flow + Flex combo can't be much different, but it's almost certainly quieter and cleaner...
Heck, if the High-Flow combo were only good for THREE HP, it'd only be off by two from the race-header....
Am I missing something???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,333 Posts
Originally posted by MichaelXi:
So,
If the Race-header and flex only netted 5Hp at the wheels, that tells me that a "Shorty" + Hi-Flow + Flex combo can't be much different, but it's almost certainly quieter and cleaner...
Heck, if the High-Flow combo were only good for THREE HP, it'd only be off by two from the race-header....
Am I missing something???
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes you are missing something...for a shorty hi-flow and exhaust your talking $900+ why pay that much when you can have more gains for less $$$
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Race header is still a little better though..

You will definetly get more top end.

Just compare say .. the Kamikazi race headers VS FS oR FC and you see they make less power. Those headers are exactly like a shorty and a race/offroad pipe..

So "tunned" because thats the key.. you will see alot better top end with "LONG" race headers then anything "shorty"

I think..


[ 12-29-2002, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: tdot-zx3 ]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
I guess I'm just looking at a smaller gap than I suspected between the two, which is GREAT news for those who want to run a cat due to either legality, sound, or moral/environmental concerns.
I figured the shorty/hi-flow cat combo was probably good for around 5hp, and the race-header to be good for close to 10hp. (Over stock, WITH a good cat-back and flex-pipe).

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
I'd like to see A/B dynos of a couple cars at various levels of mods.
Do a couple runs w/ the long header, switch to the shorty/hi-flow and do a couple more runs.
Same day, same dyno's same cars....
Just to see the actual difference between the two options.
Surely one of the companies that sells both options could support such a test, so that we have real #'s to compare.


[ 12-29-2002, 08:46 PM: Message edited by: MichaelXi ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,333 Posts
There is deffintly a difference in power...airforcefocus who has the FS head package..had a Random Tech Cat/JBA shorty and pulled 146whp..and when he put the race header on there he pulled a whopping 157whp...thats 11whp gain over the shorty/cat..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
Now THAT'S the kind of gain I was expecting over STOCK!!!???? (Not the difference between the two!!!)
Why this extreme disparity between those #'s and ZX3Ford's results?????
Are you sure that was the ONLY mod-change between those two dyno runs??? Weather???? Machine Calibration???


[ 12-29-2002, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: MichaelXi ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,333 Posts
Originally posted by MichaelXi:
Now THAT'S the kind of gain I was expecting over STOCK!!!???? (Not the difference between the two!!!)
Why this extreme disparity between those #'s and ZX3Ford's results?????
Are you sure that was the ONLY mod-change between those two dyno runs??? Weather???? Machine Calibration???
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">tuning..yup only things that changed.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Hold on though ..

See thats not Fair because what your comparing there is TOP END! And Thats only the Peak number.. So many times its been proven peek means absolutely nothing if the rest of your dyno is lacking.

Guaranteed that shorty/highflow made more power low end then the race header did..

Like Michael said .. you really have to see Dyno comparisons..

I know here in Canada, FocusedOne has dyno sheets of the 2 .. i will try to get them to post if hes willing to send them to me..

The gains are better like i originally said.. But I think Michael wants to see accross the board gains.. 11hp @ 7000 doesnt mean that much to your average focus owner.


Just my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
299 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
what gives better gains, which one is louder (race header, right?)

does the race header replace up to the flex pipe?

any dynos?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
It is almost absolulty impossible for a shorty + high flow cat to make more power then a properly tunned header. Granted the FS and FC versions have runners around 28 or so inches however the resonance tune is much closer to the lower rpm range then the 9-13 inch primaries of a shorty. The bottem line is a race header will net you gains over the short with high flow cat everywhere in the rpm band. The only reason for the Raceheader not to is if the cam timing is shifted to the higher rpms. With a header with longer primaries say 36 inch or so you would see even more torque. A Full length header is better then a shorty. regaurdless. and a full length header resonance tuned to your desired rpm range is a whole hell of alot better
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
Travis,
It only makes sense that the Race header would offer more gains, the question is, "How MUCH more, and WHERE are the gains?"
If the gains are not very great, then those who'd prefer a cat only have price to tempt them toward going without. If the gains are considerably good, then that may change some people's minds about their intended mod-path.
On the subject of "Exhaust-Tuning", there is one major consideration at play here. Tuning works because of the way it improves the efficiency of scavenging. If you change your head, or your valves, or your timing, you've changed what an ideal tuning would be....
I suspect that it is for this reason that the race header may show considerably greater gains for someone w/ a head-package, while not being THAT big an improvement over the nicely flowing Shorty/Hi-Flow Combo for someone w/ only bolt-ons... Even then, different heads, cams, valves, etc, may well produce different results w/ the same header.
Just a Theory....



[ 12-30-2002, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: MichaelXi ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Well basically when you change head / cams whatever you want a header tuned to your combination. The length of teh primaries is your biggest tunning factor and that never changes from engine to engine. So if you get a race port head and cams ofcourse you want shorter primaries to complement your top end probably around 23 inches thats good for approxiamtly 7500 rpms. if your running bolt ons you want 36 inch or so primaries thats good for 5000 rpms. In either case you get an approxiamte 5% increase in torque at that point. With a shorty your getting the secondary pressure wave tune and even that secondary wave is tuned for 8000 rpms. Thats just too high to use and on top of that you have that massive baffle box right after your primaries merge. I havent seen the real world stuff on this yet but i would be willing to bet that the race header is worth signifigant gains. And for those not in a state that requires a visual it would be bennificial to place a cat down stream farther because it owuld only cost you 1-2 horsepower at most. street leagle 350+87 dollars for cat for a combo that makes more power everywhere and is much cheaper

[ 12-30-2002, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Travis ]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
So, Your assertion is that "Bolt-Ons-Only" will see greater benefits from a long-tube header than an engine w/ race cams and head??
Not saying that they both won't, just that, the way I read your post, you seem to imply that a "Race-Head" set-up would require shorter tubes to be optimal than would a "Bolt-on" set-up...
I haven't really gotten into pondering the pulses, but this seems to contradict the dyno evidence that's been presented so far in this thread......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,477 Posts
The way I see it, in stock to slightly modded form, they are both about the same. But when highly modified, the longer race tubes really come to life. If I had a friend who was only wanting to pep up his ride, I'd tell him to go with the shorty's and build it as he goes, but anyone who wants to make as much powa as possible should get what's best, whether it's 2hp better or 20. Just my $0.07
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,312 Posts
Originally posted by mr.squatch:
The way I see it, in stock to slightly modded form, they are both about the same. But when highly modified, the longer race tubes really come to life. If I had a friend who was only wanting to pep up his ride, I'd tell him to go with the shorty's and build it as he goes, but anyone who wants to make as much powa as possible should get what's best, whether it's 2hp better or 20. Just my $0.07
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On your First point, I THINK I agree, but Travis' assertion SEEMS to contradict that...

On the second point, I'd LIKE to make as much power as possible, but if there's ONLY a 2-4 Hp difference, I'd rather be a little more quiet and save the environment the hassle. That's not enough difference to be a big deal for a "Bolt-On's" guy, when BOTH options already improve upon stock.
Say, "I'VE Got 130 Hp", "well... I've got 134!!!"
Whoop-de-doo....
Now, "I've got 130Hp" vs "I'VE got 144!!!" is a BIG deal..... That's a decent mod for only one area.. (Primary exhaust).
Does anyone have before/after dyno's at a couple of stages of modification??
FocusSport? Focus Central?
We ARE your Customers here....
Can you please help us out???
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top