Agreed that for rallycross at slow speeds, anything is fine, but for real rally you want to get something that will last and you can get service and spares easily. Hotbits have a pretty high failure rate and are very short travel. Too short for anything but smooth asphalt really.I would strongly recommend Hotbits. They are entry level priced (around $2000-2500 depending on options) and seem to take a beating...at least on lighter cars like the Focus. If you do go that route, MAKE SURE you get the rear coilover setup vs. the stock spring and damper location setup. We had the latter when we started rallying and it caused a BIG roll which we were lucky to walk away from completely unharmed. The issue is that with the dampers turned down for increased compliance for a winter event, the springs were far too powerful and caused us to hop twice, almost end over end before rolling up a tree.
If you're looking for rallyx stuff, the other Andrew is right, stock stuff is just fine since you probably won't get out of 2nd gear.
Well, yeah. When I say any thing about the well documented problems of rediculously short travel---sometimes shorter than stock but sold as "gravel"---and blowing oil past seals , I am only reporting what dozens of people have told me when AFTER blowing initial money for the stuff, they spend even more replacing one shock, then a strut then another shock, then they are tired. This are failure is use, not crash damage.Jan, I have been on rally anarchy for years now and any suspension can be broken if you crash hard enough.
Maybe they aren't trying very hard:dunno:Hot bits has performed very well on several rally foci that I know that have done over 20 rallies that I can think of off hand without a failure.
Good to hear. I've seen people hit one pot hole and bend stuff. gentle front bang and bend the rears.T he stock focus suspension with some proper maintenance and replacement of parts as the wear out has been failure free on the 20 rallies I have done with my car car I think 36 that Simon Wright has completed with his.
NO!The suspension you post above is argued for and sold by John Vanlandingham in Seatle,
That's hilarious.who is the defacto admin on Rally Anrachy.
Actually the did only the Fairgrounds foofery and one the first stage first hit a gate post while nearly going off, then on a gently sloping sweeping left, one clear sunny day, with grassy hills and hardly any tree, and none in the field of view on the easy left sweeping kink in question, the driver Christain---simply understeered straight off and rolled down a grassy hill.That car only did part of one event with that suspension until they rolled.
No when they drove by here on the way home, the driver had his story all set. It was ALL the co-driver's fault.The drivers says the suspension was not be blame.
Why do you have to try to tell stories? That "set up" is the same, aside from the top mounting's bolt circle in front and pin mount on back, the same suff on piles and piles of cars, in fact it is dimensionally the same as on XR4Ti which we've seen do events for years, same parts as dozens and dozens of cars winning the 2wd class --Josh Wimpey 5+ years--no problems, Chris Martin in Canadian Championship events for years---no problems, National title for Mark P in Rally Lite class, Overall win for Alex Rademacher in the West at Mendocino Rally 2011 no problems till NEXT event when he sorta missed the road after a ump and landed on a BIG boulder.....,But there is no data on the performance or durability of that that setup.
Thanks for the questions..Welcome to Focaljet John(and William and Juggernautmotorsports for that matter-you guys are pretty new here).
Andrew-I'm kinda surprised you aren't more on board with replacing that control blade with a stronger rod since you have bent them before.
I didn't remember that until I again clicked on your build thread in your sig(one of my favorite threads here by the way).
On page 13 of your thread about half way down there's the pics of your bent suspension(granted it's not as bent as what John posted)....here's the link:
I'm still trying to get my head around why putting the springs outboard on the rear suspension is a good idea.
Can we discuss?
Also-John-do you have any specs on the travel of the hotbits for gravel?
And the failures that you mention-anymore specific info?
OK, here's a quick sketch weput up on www.rallyanarchy.com some time ago illustrating the simplicity of the inner fender wall, and a idea of one way to support that lower shock bolt..Poor thing hanging out in single shear!Interesting thread is interesting.
That guy from Ontario was me John. And I'll be calling you again soon, just ran out of time with work and life this time of year. As for the current hotbits, "Wow, a serious, rebuildable, long travel set up for just a couple of hundred more than the glorified street stuff and thousands less than the next thing, cool deal!" is EXACTLY what I thought the first time I heard about your stuff (from reliable sources might I add), and is what I'm currently thinking. I can't afford Proflex, Reiger, Ohlins, RSSP etc. currently so I'll have to make due with what I can afford. As for those rear bits (control arms and toe links), I would NEVER go back to the stock stuff; the car seems to seldom do the same thing in corners when the inputs are exactly the same, which is ok if you aren't going all that fast and unnerving when you are.Thanks for the questions..
Its so strange to read such carefully coached slagging for somebody offering a really good setup that that what's his duff knows works really well, good enough for plenty of class wins in various classes and even some overall wins....
You'd thing that there would be something like "Wow, a serious, rebuildable, long travel set up for just a couple of hundred more than the glorified street stuff and thousands less than the next thing, cool deal!"
Nope, Negative Nellie all the way.
OK I've only seen like 3 sets of Hot Bitch in my hands, all had right at 160mm of shaft travel, front and rear.
Stock Fawkus --and Xr4Ti have 160mm front, and about 230mm rear, so calling them "gravel" stuff is a laugh---except to those who pay money for 'em.
The failures I was told about ---from the 5-6 guys who used them and THEN came to me---were blowing oil out, shaft guide wear, and bending...
As for going straight coilover, its all about ease of "living with the car". Mod the shell once---and it really is easy for this part of it---then everything afterwards is easier. Spring choice for long travel is just a matter of picking up the phone and ordering another spring. Setting the car 1" higher or sinking 1', just spin the spring seats.. It let's you TRY OUT things if you want. And then when you go nuts and slam into a bank on the outside of a corner at 40 and tweak something, its far easier to whip out the complete coilover than that spring crammed between the arm and subframe...
I even go further and suggest guys mod the top fixing point by welding in 2 D shaped ears and a piece of thing sheetmetal shaper like Greek Omega (just to close it off and keep the dirt out). Then they have a normal "Eyelet" upper mount which comes on the shocks rather than the really pretty stainless steel pin mounts I make.. Mod once, save money....
And as for disappearing, there is a serious limit to the amount of different sites one "one man shop" can cruise.
We have an excellent rallyforum at www.rallyanarchy.com where there's nice piccies of lots of this stuff and even some simple drawings... Rally boys should be on their own site rather than buried somewhere like this.
There's nothing really unique about the rally end of a Focus that needs to be segregated in some obscure place.
Oh, yeah, I just got a call from a guy in Ontario like 2 days ago for suspension and motor mods ( I build some pretty good engines), I'll ax him about his suspension. He did say he did a homeade version of the links and he said it renewed his faith in the car.
I have to agree,.