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As someone that was in the middle of this mess and having reviewed many of the in car videos, I would like to make the following comments: As with all racing incidents, there are many causes and contributing events. Yes, in this case we can point to this person or that person may have contributed to the incident, but I think it is important that we focus on what was the primary reason for the incident – a late green flag. The first car to car contact was made BEFORE the green flag was displayed (confirmed by in car video) when the front of the pack checked up when the green flag was not given. With the starting conditions as they are at Road America, not being able to see the starter’s flag while climbing the hill at speed, why would you ever want to hold the green flag, partially with a high speed group of cars. This is not pro racing where we are running for great sums of money. If the start is ragged or out of line, so what – throw the green flag. If you are really upset with someone, black flag them or throw a yellow after the start, to regroup the field. Yes, again I admit that that were contributing factors and events, but if the green flag had been thrown at the normal time (even 5 seconds earlier), I believe there would still be 21 race cars racing next weekend instead of being repaired, if some of them are even repairable.
Edit - you really do have to read the whole list of posts to even attempt to get a grasp on what happened. But the good thing, and amazing thing, was that nobody was seriously injured. Just a bunch of damaged egos and a crapload of $ down the drain.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
There are several sets of "Facts" presented in regards to this incident. Fact is you have big egos and sometimes very little skill... Sounds like some track days, huh?
 

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geez dave, what a mess....inspired me to a new sig though (yes i cribbed it from there)
 

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I can't believe somebody would blame that on a late green flag...

The race doesn't start until the green flag drops, period.
 

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I was following the story over on corner-carvers yesterday. Such a sad sight to see all those vintage cars piled up. A few years ago I was at the BRIC, and spent some time with the crew that maintains the Bud Moore Boss 302's. Those cars are pristine! Most show cars are not as nice as these race cars. I guess the black Camaro (missing back half) had just won an award for best restoration at the race. They think the Camaro was a total loss.

The biggest issue I always see at vintage races is that some drivers still think they are racing for points, and other think its just for fun. When they meet on the track, well, you know the results. Those guys push those vintage cars hard! They sure did when I was there.


The Boss and Cobra make me cry.
 

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Along the lines of red mist I'll share a story from Summit Point last weekend.

I had a slower Honda in front of me that, for some reason, would not let me pass for 5 or 6 straight laps(Yes, he did have an instructor in the passenger seat). I could have pitted in for some ‘fresh air’ but consciously chose not to. After about 2 laps I figured he wasn't going to let me pass due to cranial-rectal inversion.

So, I decided to see just how much I could harass him and to see where he was faster than me and where I was faster than him. Also, it gave me a good indication of when he got a corner "just right", when I got a corner "just right" and of course, the opposite. A few times, I tried backing off the corner before to get a run on him into and out of the next corner. In addition, it gave me the opportunity to find out what its like to go into a corner behind a car and have him make a mistake right in front of me. There were a few times where I had to lift, apply brakes, go off line, or all three in order to avoid him.

Now, (as Sean subconsciously re-thinks signing me off to solo) I’ll say that because of the practice I had been doing with trail braking, lift throttle, and alternate lines and my attitude about the whole situation, I never even remotely came close to an “incident”. Because we were running considerably slower lap times than I was used to, I was probably down to no more than 5 or 6/10ths. In the end, I just chalked it up as good experience, a boat load of FUN and didn’t let the “red mist” even come close to setting in.

BWT Sean, if you're reading this. Because of all the work we did in turn three, it meant that by Sunday afternoon I could comfortably go through there just about anyhow/anyway at just about any speed. Which did help in this situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
yeah, I've seen several of those cars at Road Atlanta Walter Mitty, and at 24 min of Daytona before the 24 Hr race. >sigh< The Bud Moore car was one of my favorite.
 

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cannot believe it..have not run in a vintage race since the volvo historic series a while back(not just volvo's..everything from ex trans am cars to 50's jags)...we were told in no uncertain terms....contact and you are done for the year...
 

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Wow, what's with this years incidents? Never remember so much.
Man I am going to be very conservitive this weekend

Nice title, and as I coach, will re-enterate that very point. It about getting better, the friendships, toys and memories

All the best to my eastern buddies. Let's make good memories
 

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They did the same thing two years ago at the same race, too.
I wasn't out there for that, but the other three guys from my shop were, they said it was pretty awful.
 
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