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Discussion Starter #1
I compteted in our local SCCA autocross yesterday in the STS class and I managed to take a whopping last place. (Oh well) Anyway, after reviewing the classes, I'm not sure what class I should be running. I have 1998 Civic with I/H/E springs/shocks and +1 wheels/tires. I got KILLED in STS but noticed that SM (street mod) times were slower than STS. Then I noticed the street tire front-wheel-drive category. What is the difference between the three?
 

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street tire FWD? probably a region-specific class.

SM generally allows major invasive changes to the engine and suspension, like switching out one suspension type for another, adding a turbo, or changing cams and stuff. STS is more restrictive on the modifications allowed and is basically for people who like to roll on street tires.
 

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the classes work fine for me?

also: except for a noted few people in SM who often FTD around here, STS, DS and CS are the fastest classes. it's all about who's driving
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, WRXs are allowed in FWD Street tire. WTF?

Both my friend and I were having problems getting classified. Here's the funny thing: There were three new Sis. One ins SM, one ins STS, and one in F (fwd street tire). The only difference was one had a header. All were running different wheels and intakes. The guy in F didn't have suspension (so why wasn't he running in G stock?).

Here's the PDF results if you want to look at the classes:

http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/2003/03scca7class.pdf
 

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my major problem, and I refuse to actively participate until this is rectified, is that engines with variable timing stock go up against our engines, without. We're not allowed to tune our Cams at all... but they're allowed timing controllers.

How on earth is that fair?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
my major problem, and I refuse to actively participate until this is rectified, is that engines with variable timing stock go up against our engines, without. We're not allowed to tune our Cams at all... but they're allowed timing controllers.

How on earth is that fair?
You think that sucks? When I had my 01 ZX3 they had never had a Focus run so they put me in the the class with Miatas and MR2 Spyders!!!!

EDIT: I just noticed that the STis were in FWD Street tire.

EDIT EDIT: I also noticed that STS SM is NOT indexed.
 

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elaborate? are you talking about VTEC? hey, stock is stock and the SEB discusses classing all the time.
 

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Guys guys, dont worry about it. PAX is garbage, igonre it. Just go out and lay down the best time you can. There is no money on the line, it aint a full on competition like the nationals so dont worry about it. Go out and become a better driver. Compare yourself to the fastest drivers in your region, if you are making up ground on them you are getting faster.
 

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Ha try our new classes for next year because there is no HSS I get bumped into DSS which is populated by the Mini Cooper "S" and MazdaSpeeds. I am only just staying in the SS class with my mod points. At least I'm not in Mod any longer where I get walked all over by WRX's.

In the rule test event this past weekend I came 5th out of 10 behind a Coopers "S" 2 MazdaSpeeds and a neon.
 

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Ha try our new classes for next year because there is no HSS I get bumped into DSS which is populated by the Mini Cooper "S" and MazdaSpeeds. I am only just staying in the SS class with my mod points. At least I'm not in Mod any longer where I get walked all over by WRX's.

In the rule test event this past weekend I came 5th out of 10 behind a Coopers "S" 2 MazdaSpeeds and a neon.
see? it could be worse, it could be Canada! i don't know much about canadian autocrossing. is there a website for a canadian sanctioning body?
 

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Exactly,

It is YOUR job to classify your car. It's in the rules. SCCA is very particular to run by rules. You may not agree with them but they are written and YOU are required to buy and have a copy with you at each event. Do they check NO, is it required YES.

If you havn't run a lot of events with your car, then the lost time is in your hands. I have been doing Solo II off and on for 30 years. Won a lot of trophys, and I'm getting my ass kicked by an ACR while I try to learn to drive this damn FWD SVT. My experience is in my 72 240Z, of which I am the original owner. It was FAST then, and slow now. Can you say 5inch wide wheels?

My point, learn to drive and set up your car. Work on tire pressure, left foot braking, memorizing the course, looking ahead etc.

Buy the books, read the rules. Good luck.
PS. I have two firsts this season, thought I was going somewhere, then yesterday was whooped. Need more seat time and more setup knowledge? Dread that understear on 180's.
 

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Well, WRXs are allowed in FWD Street tire. WTF?

Both my friend and I were having problems getting classified. Here's the funny thing: There were three new Sis. One ins SM, one ins STS, and one in F (fwd street tire). The only difference was one had a header. All were running different wheels and intakes. The guy in F didn't have suspension (so why wasn't he running in G stock?).

Here's the PDF results if you want to look at the classes:

http://www.scca-milwaukee.org/Solo/2003/03scca7class.pdf
I just figured it out. It was like our x-class, which we got rid of.

Your Street Tire class (rear or front), is just that, Street Tires. Stock classes (and SP and P) allow for R-compounds, and its hard to be competetive if you don't have a set. So, you can run this class against other cars on street tires. Then they PAX your results based on the car's class.

T 8 34 Del Darga 91 Ford Mustang White Milwaukee 52.436(2) 46.410 46.271 50.083 49.480 49.129 38.220
Wind Lake, WI Del Darga REALTOR (ESP 0.826)
This person has a ESP Mustang. While his raw time of a 46.271 was faster than the first place person, his PAX index is higher, so his time was slower. This way, cars of all different classes can compete together fairly (well, an attempt at fair anyways)

STS is different. Its like street tire, but its an offical class (where street tire is a club class). Cars are limited to 4-seaters and smaller engine sizes, and modifications are light, typically those found on your average enthusist's car. STX builds on STS a little more.

Sounds like your car is best in STS by your modifications. SM cars can be fast, because of the amount of modications allowed. Doesn't mean all cars in SM are fast, but its usually spelled $M, because the amount of money that can be spent.
 

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My point, learn to drive and set up your car. Work on tire pressure, left foot braking, memorizing the course, looking ahead etc.
I couldn't agree more, I'm not angry or upset about the classes frankly I'm just happy to be out of mod. I look at SoloII and autoX as a tool to learn how to drive better I'm not looking at FTD or PAX or getting a trophy. If I was only in it for the trophies I would have stuck with showing my Focus rather than driving it.
 

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I don't know how long you've been Autoxing but most everyone gets killed when we first start. As you improve you'll see your placement go up against the regular group. Sometimes I think I'm getting good because I have a few trophies but then I go over to a neigboring region and run against a divisional champion and get pasted by 5 seconds
! Embarrasing but good motivation to try harder!

Also, definately read the rules so you'll understand what's legal and how it will affect the street manners if it's your daily driver. I wasted cash on several items that I've since taken off because they're not legal
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Your Street Tire class (rear or front), is just that, Street Tires. Stock classes (and SP and P) allow for R-compounds, and its hard to be competetive if you don't have a set. So, you can run this class against other cars on street tires. Then they PAX your results based on the car's class.
So why would I run STS when I could run FWD Street tire? What would be the advantage? I'm a relitively new autocrosser (I have done five total – none in the same car
). Wouldn't I have the best chance of doing better (than last) in the F class (FWD street tire)? I guess I'd have to find out what is allowed for mods …
 

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Your Street Tire class (rear or front), is just that, Street Tires. Stock classes (and SP and P) allow for R-compounds, and its hard to be competetive if you don't have a set. So, you can run this class against other cars on street tires. Then they PAX your results based on the car's class.
So why would I run STS when I could run FWD Street tire? What would be the advantage? I'm a relitively new autocrosser (I have done five total – none in the same car
). Wouldn't I have the best chance of doing better (than last) in the F class (FWD street tire)? I guess I'd have to find out what is allowed for mods …
I was faced with the same delima when we had that class too. I ran in it twice, but went back to STS. I ran in it because there were more cars, and liked having 15-20 people in a class, as opposed to 5.

With a FSP PAX of 0.806, your PAX time would have been 41.268, and placed you 23rd in the Street Tire FWD class. This is under the assumption that they won't let you use a STS PAX in street tire, so you would have to bump up to FSP.

Here is a simplified worksheet to help you find out what mod puts you where (there are many more rules than these): http://www.vmsc.org/autox/classing_table.pdf
 

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Here is a simplified worksheet to help you find out what mod puts you where (there are many more rules than these): http://www.vmsc.org/autox/classing_table.pdf
Damn you guys get tons of free mods in STS that would push me well in to SP or even mod. We only get 5 mod points in SS and for me that 3 for my coilovers, 2 for my header, I removed my chip and volant to stay in the class.
But based on that sheet my car would run in STS, that's good to know as I'm planning on invading a few SCCA events next summer.
STS must be a huge class.
 

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I couldn't agree more, I'm not angry or upset about the classes frankly I'm just happy to be out of mod.
What you dont like B-Mod? But its so fun competing against bare chassis, no windows, first gen MR2s on slicks and full on Civic racecars!
I mean you can go set outright FTD and still be PAXd to 45/47. Woohoo! Where do I sign up! Oh wait.....
 

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My point I guess is coming from the land where we have monthly track days available to us, and the home to The Focus Challenge. I'd rather pay $100 to get 2-3 hours of track time on a course with faster speeds, more nimble turns, and better surface conditions, than to pay $30 to sit in line all day, wait for my turn, get a sunburn while re-righting knocked over cones and get 2-3 MINUTES of seat time.

I'm saying that if I could compete fairly and on a balanced playing field, it might be more of a draw. But now... going up against SIs just isn't fair. So for all the aforementioned reasons.... its just not fun. No fun, no reward = waste of my time.
 
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