[hatched]

I was on www.autoweek.com and I noticed that Scion's xB is the cover story this week. That got me to researching the xB and xA further.

I really like both cars (as many of you know). They're different, lots of stardard features yada yada yada. They're supposed to be fairly safe, get great milage, tons of space, and appeal to the Generation Y.

However, the xA and xB will only have a 1.5 liter, 108 hp engine (1NZ-FE from the ECHO). They're predicting 0-60 in the 9-second range. Based on this information alone, I tend to think that the cars will miss thier target audience of the twenty-something male.

Being a 20-something male, I want everything the xB (and xA) offer (including Toyota's reputation for reliability) However, I also don't want to get my ass handed to me by a Kia Rio performance wise.

I think the Scions could be sucessful, but I don't think they will be with 108 hp (which is why I'll most likely wait a couple of years to see if they bump up the power). I think the Scion's will need at least 120 hp to be competitive in the U.S. market.

These cars are huge in Japan (see www.club-bb2000.com), and the horsepower figures are probably less of a concern (less open space, speed limit of 50mph, urban congestion). But in the U.S., where Generation Y lusts after high-powered imports such as the Nissan Skyline and 350Z, Acura's NSX, or on a more realistic level, souped-up Civics, Protégés, Foci, WRXs, and the like, I think these cars, unless given aftermarket support (that won't cause dealership headaches) or at least a 20hp power increase will fail within five years.

What do you think?

 

[BowDown]

I'd tap it!

I love the Xa...

 

[03zx3]

power to weight man

 

[SaTaNcLaUz]

i would get one, its one of the 2 cars i would trade my focus for

the other being a TT roadster

 

[jRock]

xA, $13k for 108HP, 105lb/ft, 2335 weight. 31/37 mpg, DOHC and 10.5:1 compression. Decent.

xB, costs a grand more, same engine specs, ~100 lbs. more weight, but the styling wowowoowowow.

Personally still rather have a 2.3 DuraFocus.

 

[hatched]

Originally posted by 03zx3:
power to weight man

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The 5-speed xB weighs 2435 lbs. and has a 23:1 power to weight ratio.

A ZX5 weighs approx. 2700lbs with 130 hp, making it's power to weight ration 21:1, just slightly better.

In essence, giving the xB/xA 120hp will be more similar to a Focus power-to-weight ratio.

(An EVOVIII, for reference, has a 12:1 ratio.)

Also, gearing will be a factor, I suppose. However, to the non-gearhead, 108 hp sound like nothing – and I'd bet that not every Scion owner will be calculating power to weight ratios.

 

[Honkeytonk Monkey]

If I was going to buy a cube, I'd get a Chevy Astro and pimp it out. Have a vehicle that can tow a decent ammount (like a boat, or U-haul trailer), accelerate worth a ****, have an aftermarket that includes over a decade of parts, and have perhaps the most reliable engine I've ever had any experience with. Sure it's gas mileage blows, but c'est la vie!

 

[Egz]

Its the same engine as an Echo, no? Don't they have a TC/SC kit for it, or will really soon?

 

[Jared]

i've been all about the xB since it was first announced and have been following all the Scion news very closely, and yes i agree with you, that engine could be their downfall... i loooove the styling, but it is NOT on my list of Possible Cars I Will Buy Within The Next Few Years because of its weak engine.

and they should REALLY offer alloys as an option, sheesh. i mean i know they gotta keep the price down, but some people might want alloys right away without having to save up for aftermarket rims. or since they're so down with customizing, they could have aftermarket rims as options so you could finance them with the car, lol

 

[hatched]

Originally posted by Egz:
Its the same engine as an Echo, no? Don't they have a TC/SC kit for it, or will really soon?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes. Greddy will have a turbo kit and Blitz already has a supercharger for the car. Keep in mind, adding a turbo or a supercharger will probably void your warnnaty (just as it states in the Focus warranty).

 

[hatched]

BTW: I just got done talking to a soon-to-be Scion dealership. Scion is doing what they call a "pure price" system. It'll be similar to Saturn's no haggle pricing.

MSRP is $14,xxx, and that's what you'll pay for an xB. Unfortunately, neither car comes with cruise control

(another reason I'll probably wait a year or two).

 

[Jared]

Originally posted by hatched:
(another reason I'll probably wait a year or two).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this will likely be the solution for a lot of us who are interested in the xB

 

[Rally Man]

Originally posted by Jared:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hatched:
(another reason I'll probably wait a year or two).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this will likely be the solution for a lot of us who are interested in the xB</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This might also hurt it's sales. See the way your thinking is the way other people will also think, not every one, but maybe many. They'll say, "Well it doesn’t have the features that I want" & of course "It doesn’t have any power", I don’t think it's going to succeed.
Edit: Oh and then you'll have people like me, "It looks like a shoe box on wheels"

I like the xA, but the xB, don't think so.

[ 04-22-2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Rally Man ]

 

[AnythingButAFocus]

Andrew, Blitz has a supercharger made for that engine, and specifically the xB body style. I heard some people are pushing 160-180hp, that's plenty of power.

Andrew (the original

)

Edit: Yes, I know it will void the warranty, till the warranty is up, just bitch and moan

[ 04-22-2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: AnythingButAFocus ]

 

[proxemac]

It seems to me like the entire brand is going for a small portion of moderately sized, small margin market segment. I think its main appeal is to urban kids and I don't think it can really succeed like that unless they've planned on low production numbers. However, I also think Toyota realizes that it's going to be slow out of the gate, which may be one of the reasons for the early release in California. I think they're planning on seeing what the response is like in what is probably the best U.S. market for the current Scion cars and then they'll tailor things in response.

[ 04-22-2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: proxemac ]

 

[AtBlue5spZX3]

Though I find the concept very appealing and eagerly anticipate being able to drive one, I don't think this will be a success story for Toyota.

 

[Maxximtl]

I am a little unsure aswell. I think the delayed release was a bad idea. Once they showed the car, a lot of interest was generated. Toyota is going to lose that "drive" by not releasing the car to the public in most states till 2004.

In my mind, if a company is going to show a production model at a car show, it should be months away from release, not years. Sure, the people in California can buy them fairly soon, but what about the rest of us?

As for the power, it will be a problem. It will be the lowest powered car in its class. Even if it is light, people won't see that. People in their 20's are shopping Horsepower and options. The Scions won't offer the best bang for the buck in the compact catagory. They will be nifty looking, but cosmetics will only take you so far.

I really like the Xb, but I just don't see the Scion brand succeeding with zero powertrain choices, and relatively high base prices.

 

[InsertCleverNameHere]

How well do these things handle?

Many of us, including myself, purchased a Focus because of the way these cars handle despite the engine's power limitations.

If I wanted more horsepower I could have bought a Cavalier Z24!

 

[Vegeta]

Id like an xB. I saw the Greddy version at a car show and it was sick. Ive also heard that in addition to the aftermarket parts Toyota will offer for this vehicle that they are thinking about and optional supercharger offered through them to bump up the hp to 160 and keep the warrenty. Ive only heard rumors of this but I would expect it. I do know that Greddy is making a turbo kit for it.

I just like the styling of it but the one thing that pisses me off is everyone complains about the engine. If it was gonna be a freakin sports car it would be shaped as one. Everyone expects all new cars to be these 1/4 mile demons no matter what. They even expect suvs to be fast. If you want fast buy a sports car, this is not designed to be a racecar, just something to cruise around in. Did someone mention handiling? Come on, go buy a freakin miata. Do you want to sling this thing around a 90 degree corner going 70mph?
I like it cause its different and from my point of view geared towards someone who doesnt need alot of speed but likes style. But seeing the mentality of car buyers they probably wont sell alot of them.

 

[madmax1]

Torque matters to! With a specific power output of 72hp/L (the zetec is 65hp/L) I can only imagine the lack of nuts in the bottom-end/midrange. I know that specific power output doesn't tell the whole story but it's a good indication of the hp/torque goals the designers had in mind.

It's a tough call about the success. On one hand I'm right in the target market and this thing repulses me. The styling is gimmicky and the performance substadard. On the other hand the price and content seem pretty good.