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And just because i'm thinking, and i've driven your car around the cones, with more power we're going to have to consider everything here. How is power being delivered? Will your torque ramp up too quickly (like ms. daisy) and make pedal modulation on corner out a necessity, which is bad, or can we dial her back? How are you going to control boost? What tires do you want to run? Can you FIT them since your car is like 0.02" off the ground? How's your weight distribution? How are your progressive camber and caster angles on your suspension? How is your weight transfer, both front / rear and left/ right on a bumpy course? Can we alter your brake bias?

Plan on a diff as a necessity with this.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hahahaha thanks as always for the input. I'm on the crapper at work so I will keep the reply short for now... Part of the whole package deal I was telling you about is a basically brand-new Torsen pre-installed in an ST-spec MTX-75 with even lower miles than the one in the car. That should certainly help the traction issues.

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Discussion Starter #23
As far as geometry is concerned, we need to take some measurements, but the car *feels* great as it is. Turn-in is impressive, and the car stays very stable mid-corner. I'd imagine camber gain is around where it should be, but you're a much better judge than I. Plus, I've never measured.

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Discussion Starter #24
On the topic of tires, I'm running the widest tire I can on these wheels at the moment, a 205/40-16. I'm looking at buying a set of Fittipaldis on the local CL that I will be able to use for parts to widen the Napres. I think I'd ideally run as close to a 225/40 as possible. I'm not looking to hang with you or Jaffi, but I'd like to put a hurting on some of the mid-pack Mustangs and Camaros we see at CART events.

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Even a good set of 215's in some soft compound should give you pretty appreciable grip in a car as light as yours. My concern with your vehicle is going to be corner entry push, corner exit tire burning, and your camber gain and contact patches. Do you have camber plates in the car? Is there an available control arm lowerer (bad word choice but just put a 14 hour work day in) to give a better arc to your control arms available? I haven't seen one for the focus, but we can probably have something machined. Basically spaces the lower ball joint from the knuckle. Now that you mention it, i do remember the torsion convo, thanks for the reminder.
 

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In love with this thread. Wanted to add that Clint had a basically stock 2.3 with the gtx3071r and he made right around 300whp (his wtq escapes me atm) and he just pwnd with that in Time Attack.
Of course with your aspirations to autox your demands are different but I sincerely think that Jared and Ray have you on the right track -- pardon the pun.
gtx2867r or gtx3067r for sure and since your motor will be built you can run a couple three different boost groups say 12, 16, and 21psi you could switch between depending on what kind of autox/road course you encounter.
Excited to see you take your car to this level as well as see how the platform with FI fares against stiff competition as you will be up against similarly modified cars.
 

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There are some VERY fast people in our local group. If he's planning on running Pro-S still, he's going to have some fun challenges.

Still, at autocross, it really strikes home that some of the fastest cars around the course aren't high hp cars (granted, a lot of them are) but rather 150hp lightweight little things that just grip.

What's top speed @ 7k in 2nd for these boxes? Are you considering a different final drive ratio to bump that up a little if needed?
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Even a good set of 215's in some soft compound should give you pretty appreciable grip in a car as light as yours. My concern with your vehicle is going to be corner entry push, corner exit tire burning, and your camber gain and contact patches. Do you have camber plates in the car? Is there an available control arm lowerer (bad word choice but just put a 14 hour work day in) to give a better arc to your control arms available? I haven't seen one for the focus, but we can probably have something machined. Basically spaces the lower ball joint from the knuckle. Now that you mention it, i do remember the torsion convo, thanks for the reminder.
As it stands now, push isn't a concern, but from what I've felt I may want to consider throwing a 25mm rear swaybar in the car to help it bite just a bit more. The car is extremely neutral right now, and I prefer loose (you don't call me Mr. Spin for nothing). I have FSWerks Camber plates, though I've started thinking about moving to camber/caster plates, possibly the same ones you have on the Merkur if the right dimensions are there. Roll center correction is not available as a kit, but you and I can come up with a solution for that pretty easily if it is needed. Glad to hear you're confident a 215 would be enough for the car, as that'll make tire fitment much easier.
In love with this thread. Wanted to add that Clint had a basically stock 2.3 with the gtx3071r and he made right around 300whp (his wtq escapes me atm) and he just pwnd with that in Time Attack.
Of course with your aspirations to autox your demands are different but I sincerely think that Jared and Ray have you on the right track -- pardon the pun.
gtx2867r or gtx3067r for sure and since your motor will be built you can run a couple three different boost groups say 12, 16, and 21psi you could switch between depending on what kind of autox/road course you encounter.
Excited to see you take your car to this level as well as see how the platform with FI fares against stiff competition as you will be up against similarly modified cars.
After speaking with Vik last night over the phone (FSWerks customer service, again, has proven to be peerless), he seems to agree that a T3 turbo is just way too big for my needs. Plus, I will be able to upgrade to a GTX2867R without changing any piping, bracketry, what-have-you. It's a drop in and tune affair. That's not to say the GTX3071R is "too big for the car", or that it is excessively laggy, it just doesn't fit my needs.
There are some VERY fast people in our local group. If he's planning on running Pro-S still, he's going to have some fun challenges.

Still, at autocross, it really strikes home that some of the fastest cars around the course aren't high hp cars (granted, a lot of them are) but rather 150hp lightweight little things that just grip.

What's top speed @ 7k in 2nd for these boxes? Are you considering a different final drive ratio to bump that up a little if needed?
I'm looking forward to seeing where I wind up overall in the group. I know I won't be anywhere near the top, but It'll be nice to really start making use of the suspension I've put together. What I'd REALLY like to see is what Skibisky will be able to do with the car...

Top speed at the current 6750rpm redline in 2nd is 58mph, meaning I may have to shift... Time will tell that one. I've thought about moving to the PZEV final drive, which shouldn't be a big deal to put in one of my spare transmissions.
 

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Top speed at the current 6750rpm redline in 2nd is 58mph, meaning I may have to shift... Time will tell that one. I've thought about moving to the PZEV final drive, which shouldn't be a big deal to put in one of my spare transmissions.
Switch to a cosworth or similar IM if you haven't already and turn out to 7500
 

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http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5895838-gtx2867r-spool

Some good spool info there.

And if you're concerned about competitive autocross...I would put low-end spool (with regard to low RPM torque limits on stock rods) above top end power. You'll be faster making more power off corner exit at low revs than holding boost and power straight to redline. Just my opinion anyway. While a fun street car is still fun spooling around 3k RPM, you're going to be exiting a corner in 2nd at 2k RPM with your right floor planted while you sip a coffee waiting for boost to kick in.

Agreed what was said before about Garrett. I wouldn't run Precision, Comp, Turbonetics, etc. For me, its Garrett or Borg Warner, especially the GTX and EFR series turbos. The other manufacturers can compete with the old Garrett journal bearing setups...but that's not what your looking for.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Switch to a cosworth or similar IM if you haven't already and turn out to 7500
The Cosworth IM isn't in the cards for this year, but it will be for next year for sure. I was thinking 7200 would be as fast as I'd like to spin for the sake of the transmission.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5895838-gtx2867r-spool

Some good spool info there.

And if you're concerned about competitive autocross...I would put low-end spool (with regard to low RPM torque limits on stock rods) above top end power. You'll be faster making more power off corner exit at low revs than holding boost and power straight to redline. Just my opinion anyway. While a fun street car is still fun spooling around 3k RPM, you're going to be exiting a corner in 2nd at 2k RPM with your right floor planted while you sip a coffee waiting for boost to kick in.

Agreed what was said before about Garrett. I wouldn't run Precision, Comp, Turbonetics, etc. For me, its Garrett or Borg Warner, especially the GTX and EFR series turbos. The other manufacturers can compete with the old Garrett journal bearing setups...but that's not what your looking for.
Thanks for the link! The nice thing about the 2.3 Duratec is that even if I don't spool terribly fast, it'll still be making a decent amount of power down low before the turbo gets huffing. I was thinking about how frustrating Ms. Daisy is before the turbo spools, and realized that is because she only makes 90 peak HP without boost. The Focus is no rocketship, but it doesn't suffer from the same issue to the same extent.
 

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Thanks for the link! The nice thing about the 2.3 Duratec is that even if I don't spool terribly fast, it'll still be making a decent amount of power down low before the turbo gets huffing. I was thinking about how frustrating Ms. Daisy is before the turbo spools, and realized that is because she only makes 90 peak HP without boost. The Focus is no rocketship, but it doesn't suffer from the same issue to the same extent.
Yea, good point. 8.0:1 compression makes that motor a pig off boost.
 

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My 2.0L with the gt28rs and Cossie has virtually no lag at all.
I imagine a gtx2867r will be quite fun at 16psi. The Cossie will move the tq band up a bit Matt but may also end up lessening wheelspin. Whomever you choose to tune with should work with you closely -- your tune and what power level you choose to end up with will have a dramatic impact on driveability.
Great idea RE the PZEV final drive -- I love the gearing in my '04 with the gtx3071r.
My car has a much more linear tq curve at 16psi vs 21psi -- two different slopes altogether.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
My 2.0L with the gt28rs and Cossie has virtually no lag at all.
I imagine a gtx2867r will be quite fun at 16psi. The Cossie will move the tq band up a bit Matt but may also end up lessening wheelspin. Whomever you choose to tune with should work with you closely -- your tune and what power level you choose to end up with will have a dramatic impact on driveability.
Great idea RE the PZEV final drive -- I love the gearing in my '04 with the gtx3071r.
My car has a much more linear tq curve at 16psi vs 21psi -- two different slopes altogether.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the car performs. If I didn't have safety priorities (better seats, helmet, fire suppression), I'd pick up the Cosworth IM, but that'll probably have to wait until next year.

Ray and I will be tuning the car, so communications shouldn't be a big deal.

The gearing is very tempting, but we'll have to see how it performs as-is. I'm kind of getting tired of pulling the drivetrain out of this car.
 

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Let's focus on getting the turbo installed and tuned, then dial in the suspension when we know more about the limitations. One step at a time. How much is the cosworth IM? Have you considered building your own? Get a 1/2" aluminum head flange, some short runner velocity stacks, and we can build the outer housing. Can you even get flanges for these motors? I'd imagine so, but if the cossie IM is sub 500 or something, you'd be better off going that route as we'd be north of that in a hurry.

As a disclaimer re: Tune - i haven't tuned a focus in a long time, but i'm familiar with timing tables and fuel tables. Hopefully get a good start with FS, then can tweak to his needs from there.

Also, Matt - i'm about 900lbs left in my big argon tank. This will be enough for IC tubing but not much else, so budget a refill on that (last time it was $115, but it's a 100lb tank).
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Let's focus on getting the turbo installed and tuned, then dial in the suspension when we know more about the limitations. One step at a time. How much is the cosworth IM? Have you considered building your own? Get a 1/2" aluminum head flange, some short runner velocity stacks, and we can build the outer housing. Can you even get flanges for these motors? I'd imagine so, but if the cossie IM is sub 500 or something, you'd be better off going that route as we'd be north of that in a hurry.
Flanges can be had overseas, but I can also probably have Stew (Ted's Dad) cut me a flange if need be. The Cosworth IM is right around $1100, so making a manifold is definitely the way to go, and something I've considered in the past.

As a disclaimer re: Tune - i haven't tuned a focus in a long time, but i'm familiar with timing tables and fuel tables. Hopefully get a good start with FS, then can tweak to his needs from there.
I know you've been away from Focuses for a while, but tuning is tuning. Once you and I are both familiar with the software (again for you), I'm sure our heads can come together for a safe, strong tune.
Also, Matt - i'm about 900lbs left in my big argon tank. This will be enough for IC tubing but not much else, so budget a refill on that (last time it was $115, but it's a 100lb tank).
IC tubing is all finished as far as the kit is concerned, and won't need to be changed for the upgraded turbo, but I will keep argon in the budget in case we decide to change anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
- Going to pick up a Ranger longblock next week. Will be swapping Focus head onto Ranger bottom end once I've confirmed compression on the Focus. If compression is low (not anticipated), I'm going to have the Focus head rebuilt, then swap it onto the Ranger bottom end. I'm assuming the Ranger pistons will be compatible with the Focus head? If not, I'll just keep the ranger engine to the side as a spare.

- What is the general consensus on head gaskets? I'm going to pick up a Fel-Pro upper kit and re-gasket the entire top end regardless, but I'm thinking that it may be a good idea to grab a Cometic head gasket and keep the Fel-Pro as a spare. Thoughts?

- ARP head studs will of course be installed at the same time.
 

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I've used a fel-pro MLS gasket before. I found it to be adequate.

It probably won't matter on the stock long block but if you build the motor we have been over torquing the head studs to 80 ft lbs to help with lifting the head.
 

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I've used a fel-pro MLS gasket before. I found it to be adequate.

It probably won't matter on the stock long block but if you build the motor we have been over torquing the head studs to 80 ft lbs to help with lifting the head.
Thanks. How many ft-lbs is that over stock? I'd assume stock is 72-75?
You could o-ring it as well is you're worried.
Interesting. I'm not familiar with the process.
 
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