tarmac is asphalt. requiring sticky tires, flat suspension, and generally just like a road race car setup, just made to take street abuse.

gravel is loose and requires much different suspension / wheel/tire setups then a tarmac one.

watch what WRC cars look like when you compare a tarmac spec and a gravel spec car of the same type.

ground clearance, wheels/tires, suspsension. everything

 

Cool... I would love to do some tarmac rally/hill climbs. Targa Newfoundland is my goal. Maybe next year...

 

Yeah I think that if they had a tarmac rally locally (they keep trying and it keeps getting cancelled for one reason or another) I'd be all up onz.

Gravel is just too abusive on the car for an "enthusiast"

 

According to GRM magazine, in Sept 3-4 weekend the U.S. Rally Tennessee is an all tarmacstage rally event, 112 miles long.

I am getting married in Sept so I don't think it'll work but I think my car might make a good rally car [It's not a good road race or drag race car and it has to be good at something.]

If they hold it again maybe I will do it. Want to co-drive?

Remember this is a stage rally, requiring, full cage, drivers suits and helmets. Also there is a whole procedure to go thru before you can get a lisence to drive or co-drive in one.

Takes alot of time and money to stage rally. I like it and would love to do it just never could justify the money.

from the right seat
dam3816
<//><

 

To compare the difference in setup between gravel and tarmac, go watch some oval small-time stock car races.
Watch a few Late-Model Races on asphalt or concrete, then watch some on clay or "dirt".
Notice how the chassis behaves and the technique differences.
For Rally, the differences are Very similar.
Yes, Rally cars turn both ways, but if you pay attention to the stock car boys in those two scenarios, you'll see what I mean.
On dirt, the cars may carry the left front from corner exit to corner entry.
On pavement, it's nothing like that, despite similar HP levels and speeds.
On Dirt, the surface is softer and more irregular, so they run a softer right rear, as well as everything else.
On tarmac, it's as stiff as they can get away with w/o wheel hop.
Almost night and day.

 

On tarmac, it's as stiff as they can get away with w/o wheel hop.

This is the most accurate statement so far, IMO. As stiff as you can get away with and not have the tires bouncing off the ground. If you are running race tires on asphalt, you will be able to generate enough grip that roll control will become an issue. Whle I have no data to back it up, it seems to me that this might be a good opportunity for a soft spring - heavy anti-rollbar setup.

 

Rally Tennessee.... Interesting people, Kendall and John.
Cherokee Trail Rally started as SCCA event for 3 years, then USAC, then NASA. Not easy people to get along with.
http://www.rallytennessee.com/
Moving on.

We held several tarmac rallies in Chattanooga Region, before developments encroached on our roads.
It was kinda funny watching rally drivers trying to sling cars to turn on asphalt. No, it didn't work.
Race race set up worked as well as anything.

 

Remember this is a stage rally, requiring, full cage, drivers suits and helmets. Also there is a whole procedure to go thru before you can get a lisence to drive or co-drive in one.

I have the cage and plan on road racing with NASA in 2006 or 2007. So most of the race and suits should be purchased before that. Before I looked at the rules and thought maybe a NASA comp lic would suffice but I think they have a seperate lic for their new rally series [nee SCCA Pro Rally] so that might put a damper on the thing. We'll see how things work out, it still might be fun and might be possible.

 

Check rollbar requirements. SCCA required gussets above and beyond a roadrace cage, and yep, different license.

 

you'll want to pour over the GCR for the sanctioning body and make sure all the requirements are met, such as tools and spares that can be very tied down, appropriate seats for yourself and your co-driver, radios, computers etc.

 

Since I am going to this event as competitor, in my '81 Scirocco, I might be able to shed some light on the subject of car prep for rally. A Focus could be a very competitive car in rally in the US.

Since RT is a NASA event you will need to check the cage specs at www.nasarallysport.com They are different than a road race car. NASA has alligned their cages rules with the FIA rule book but it is still more cage than you need for road racing.

The other bits and pieces that are needed for rally can add up. Like reflective triangles, a rally computer, tow rope, first aid kit, etc. If you are interested you should definately get involved with the sport.

On the suspension you want to run a stiff suspension on tarmac but most of the rally guys have invested so much into the gravel suspensions they just lower the coil overs and then increase the damping on their shocks to goto the couple of tramac events in the states. I disagree with the comparison of a nascar dirt track suspension to a rally suspension. In nascar the the track does some undulation but you don't get the big holes and jumps like you see in rally. The goal of a gravel rally suspension is that it should *never* bottom out, and won't bend / break with big impacts. This includes 2ft jumps and hitting some rough stuff at high speeds. To this end most rally suspensions are built with much longer coils, 10-14 inches, and the have lots of damping. Also most have much bigger pistons, 40-50mm, and thicker tubing is the strut body. The spring rates may be softer than some road race cars but they are definately above what you would see on the street.

My rally car was built out of an ex-autocross car so it came with a stiffer spring/damper combination, which is what I am going to run at RT. As for Tires I have a set of Azeins(sp) that should be good for the event. You should for the very least come out and watch the event, I have been told that the spectating is going to very good at this event. Plus you can cheer on a fellow jetter.

 

BigSandwich,
We don't disagree.
I was just referring to the compliance and travel.
For an oval, those are more corner (of the car) specific than a rally car, but the concept is the same.
I totally agree with everything that you posted, I just think you put too much literal interpretation into my comparison.
I could have compared a Supercross bike to an AMA Superbike for the same comparison.

 

MichaelXi,

Looking at it that way I can see your point, and the comparison is there. I just didn't want people thinking a late model camero modified has a good rally suspension.

 

This is news to me about it being tarmac......i must go....

Rally is my life and this will probably be the only tarmac rally i will get to see in my lifetime.

 

^^ not nessesarily. NASA has announced that this event is going to be a national level event next year and that they are adding an all tarmac event in New York next year as well.

Maybe a move toward more tarmac events will get more folks into the sport as you can easily build a dual purpose road race / tarmac rally car. Hope to see you guys out there.

 

^^ not nessesarily. NASA has announced that this event is going to be a national level event next year and that they are adding an all tarmac event in New York next year as well.

Maybe a move toward more tarmac events will get more folks into the sport as you can easily build a dual purpose road race / tarmac rally car. Hope to see you guys out there.

I agree. An East Coast Tarmac series of four events would certainly interest me and a couple of other people I know. I don't know if you are the right person to tell, but perhaps you can forward the information to those who should know, but I would think that you talk to the people at the PA Hillclimb Assoc. as their members would also be interested in tarmac rally, I imagine.

 

Rich,

I will forward this thread to the people that run NASA rallysport. To let them know that there is interest in a tarmac series.

 

BigSandwich
Have you done any hillclimbs? Between SCCA and NASA, we have 4 in the southeast with not a big tow. SCCA has BlueRidge (Sparta,NC) and Crow Mountain (Scottsboro,AL) and NASA has Rockcreek (Erwin,TN) and SnowShoe (SnowShoe,WV).
Gonna miss SnowShoe because of roadrace conflict same weekend, but will be at Crow Mtn. this fall.
We have 2 regular Scirocco's, John Barnett from AL and Bob Qualls from Nashville.

 

I don't know what you guys are talking about with all this sanctioning body and towing talk. I drive a short tarmac rally stage every morning on my way to work. Just keep a stopwatch in the cup holder. Got it down to under 8 minutes about a month ago but some new construction and a detour has me back up to just over 10.

Or is timing your morning commute considered street racing? If so, please ignore the above paragraph (as you'd normally ignore my posts).

 

Did y'all hear something?

 

rheacer,

I have not done any hill climbs in the car yet mainly because I just purchased the car this year and was focusing on getting it ready for rally TN. I was tempted to take it to the one that happened in June I think that was the Blue Ridge but the car wasn't ready.

One of the joys of buying a used race car is fixing all the things the previous owner has negleted which is what has been taking most of my time up to this point.

 

LOL
I know what you are saying. Take a look at Crow Mountain http://www.crowmountainhillclimb.org/, or think about next year. Lotsa fun.
BTW, Didn't mean to take anything away from Tennessee Rally or Cherokee Trails Rally, this is great stuff. If anyone gets a chance to go to either, do it!

 

Rich,

I will forward this thread to the people that run NASA rallysport. To let them know that there is interest in a tarmac series.

Hell yeah! I think rally (worldwide) has to move into more tarmac events to remain relevent. Nobody drives on dirt roads anymore. There's no relation to the real work there.