[CamsMach]

Regarding a UDP, and if adding this mod can damage my engine over time.

I have read that to add a UDP, whether is FC, or Esslinger, you have to remvoe the Harmonic Dampener, AKA- Torsional Vibrational Dampener. which in lamens terms, (i believe) basically, keeps the engine from breaking up from the vibration of driving.

Due to this I dont want to add this mod,

Yet, then I have read that the zetec is an interally balanced engine, and removeing the harmonic dampener will not cause any harm to my engine over the life of my car.

So the question is, which is right?

Any and all thoughts appreciated.

 

[Egz]

Internally Balanced.

 

[Marction]

this has been beaten to death...the bottom line, in my non-engineer/mechanic's opinion, is that there are hundreds of Focus owners with UDPs on their cars, some for tens of thousands of kms/miles, if not over a hundred, with no observed damage to their car...their engines have not "broken up".

that's good enough for me

 

[Shiva Chaos]

installed the fc pulley set at 12,000 miles. i'm at 4600 miles. still good except for stupid john tricks.

 

[Wedge1212]

got 25,000 w/ my UDP on and its runing just fine

 

[belacyrf]

[Edit: Because I am just to ignorant on the subject to spout an opinion]

[ 10-07-2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: belacyrf ]

 

[73Gondoleir]

I've folloewd these threads, and part of the problem is mixing "Dampener" with "Balancer". My old mustang was externally balanced, that is there wasn't enough counterweight material on the crank for primary balancing, so the front harmonic dampener had a counterweight. If you look at those things, there is an "inertia ring", with a layer of some kind of rubber between it and the hub that attaches to the crank. I think in the case of the focus, no harm would be done by substituting a smaller diameter pulley, you just might see more bearing wear if you do alot of sustained highspeed driving. Race engines have seen hp gaines by going to trick dampeners, like the fluid dampener, but they were 90 degree cranks, and the focus is a 180 degree crank.

 

[1turbofocus]

i woul not have one on my car

the question is do our engines have harmonics set up from having pistons fired on a crank shaft

Answer ,YES all engines have it ,whether it is internal or external all engines have harmonics

whether the engine is internal or external only means that the weights used to BALANCE THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY is inside the engine or out side the engine

this has has nothing to do with the HARMONICS set up by the engine running

the factory balancer is called a HARMONIC BALANCER not and engine balancer

the aftermarket part you are replaceing it with is a underdrive pulley and it will not take any harmonics out of the engine

tom

 

[73Gondoleir]

I have an old issue of Sports Compact Car at home with an engine build up on a Nissan V6. I'll find it and post the issue and page number tomorrow, as it has some information on the merits of a friction type harmonic balancer. I've been wondering for some time if there is a similar type of dampener available for the zetec, and you could attach a smaller diameter pulley to it to drive the accessories. In my opinion, that would be the best set up, as you would still get the benefits of reduced parasitic loss from the teh alternator, water pump ac, etc. By the way, has anyone checked out removing the power steering pump? Just curious, because in my hot rod days, I removed every power accessory I could from my 68 torino, converting it to manual steering.

 

[Focus_Is_Art]

I am not a engineer or mechanic, but if hundreds of jetters have it installed w/out a problem you don't have to worry about that. I have mine for 40000km on it, and it really make my daily drive much more enjoyable.

 

[73Gondoleir]

OK I did a little reading on the web, and a more correct term is "torsional dampener". I think a stock zetec could get along without one fine. I wish I could remember the ones that all the grand national stock car racers used. It was a friction clutch type dampener, and was adjustable. Probably very expensive.

 

[quaverous]

yeah, different cars balance differently, being externally or internally. for any forced induction, an udp is a no-no, but i fyou have a n/a car, then go for it. thats my opinion.

oh, i have had an esslinger udp for 40,000 miles and a fc 3 piece kit for 500 miles (long story) and everything is running great.

 

[Marction]

Originally posted by 1turbofocus:
i woul not have one on my car

the question is do our engines have harmonics set up from having pistons fired on a crank shaft

Answer ,YES all engines have it ,whether it is internal or external all engines have harmonics

whether the engine is internal or external only means that the weights used to BALANCE THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY is inside the engine or out side the engine

this has has nothing to do with the HARMONICS set up by the engine running

the factory balancer is called a HARMONIC BALANCER not and engine balancer

the aftermarket part you are replaceing it with is a underdrive pulley and it will not take any harmonics out of the engine

tom

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tom, if I had your turbo kit making 300+whp, I'd happily not have a UDP on my car either, or my header, or my intake, or...

seriously though, let's just say you were running an n/a car...why would you NOT put one on? A UDP just seems like a cheap, effective way to free up a little bit of power, no?

 

[1turbofocus]

Even on a N/A car as i stated in what i said the UPD is just that an Under Drive PULLEY it will not take out any harmonics and it is the harmonics that will kill the engine

some it will kill quick ,some it may not hurt at all it will depend on how much harmonics your engine has ,do you want to be the one it kills quick ,how much harmonics does your engine have

Not Me

tom

 

[sherych]

Hey, Tom, I value your input, since you are very experienced.
Since I installed my UDP, I can hear an engine buzzing kind of sound, from 3000rpms and up. Could it be that harmonics in my engine are rattling it, and I'm killing the engine!??? Probably I would have to swap it back for OEM pully and see, whether it dissappears. Now you made me really concerned. What would you suggest? well, better change it now, then change the engine down the road. Right!??
thanks in advance, and by the way the buzz is becoming less pronounced. Engine became quiter, not so buzzy (when I just installed the UDP it was obvious), or well, may be I'm just getting used to it. As a sidemark, I really can't give a worthy opinion on the harm. I can't even vouch that harmonics will kill the engine. I think it's all in the question to what extent they are present. So, Tom!? what you will suggest to me. It's my only power mod, and frankly I like it, but I like long-term reliability more of course.
Thanks in advance
p.s. Why would FORD RACING sell an unballance UDP, or the one that would kill the motor, well thery don't care that much, or as you said, Tom, some engine would be killed, question is what is the prob-ty of that happening, if it's one in a million, then It's up for everyone to take that chance!?? just afterthough.!

[ 10-07-2002, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: sherych ]

 

[poSSumX]

This thread has turned downward, as all on the UDP appropriateness topic seem to do. Some like it (as do I), some do not. I have been working on cars for over 20 years, and I have NEVER seen a UDP cause damage to the engine, on its' own, when properly installed (which would seem to be a no-brainer). If your gonna run your car hard all the time, something will break at some point, end of story. Blame what you will. The Zetec (with stock internals) is not meant to be raced, or pushed to 6500+RPM on a regular basis, although many do successfully. It's a matter of chance for all motors, as weakpoints exist and vary form car to car. I have seen Turbo setups rip more motors apart than bolt-ons (granted, the drivers in these cases typically have, again, lent to their own despair).

Bottom line IMHO, if you want to install a UDP on the Zetec, go for it. It HAS been proven. If you don't then don't, else you will be blaming everything that goes wrong on the little round crank pulley.

 

[ModifyYourFocus]

The Zetec may be internally balanced to help attenuate vibration but the damper on the pulley is there to absorb twist that occurs in the crankshaft cause by the firing of the pistons. Things like heavy flywheels and crank pulleys help dampen the actual deformations, typically the crank will deform (twist) more as you get farther from the flywheel. The effects of engine load and rpm are what cause the crank to fail over time and the undampened/lighter pulley will shorten that time period. It's hard to say when the failure may occur and I'm sure many people have had their pulley for long periods of time. However it is my opinion that all things equal a crank with the stock pulley will last longer then a lifecycles would be hard to say.

 

[belacyrf]

I'm getting the UDP, but it's just an interim solution. I don't plan on running it for more than a year. But while staying NA, it's a valuable and inexpensive mod

 

[Smoe]

Well i got mine, no probs, love the torque and its to much of a pain to r^2 so its staying in

My engine will prolly blow from the way i drive not the pulley