[portsmkn_trex]

i was just thinking about brake upgrades for the focus. other than brembo i cannot think of any other names; in addition i dont know if brembo could be applied to the focus. if anyone has any specs as to what brake/rotors can be used for the focus that would rule. thanks.

 

[spike]

click here

 

[darkpuppet]

Is there anything out there to upgrade the rear discs?

In particular, if I did brakes up front, I would like to upgrade the stock discs in the back (I have the optional traction/stability assist)..

[edit] ok, I re-read the site, and found the sections I totally glazed over the 1st time... still not so sure about the pie-plate thickness of the solid discs tho [/edit]

 

[Peloton25]

darkpuppet-
I would be very hesitant to touch the brakes at all on a car equipped with AdvanceTrac. Do your homework first, as I know that is a finely calibrated system and I'm not sure it would function properly with larger rotors and different calipers front or rear.

>8^)
ER

 

[Mike_D]

You may want to reconsider the Wilwood kits. A road racing friend says they actually wear the pad unevenly, the middle wears faster than the outsides, plus the calipers lack the seals necessary for a "maintenance-free" life. Baer is really the way to go for a street car, unless AEM makes one of their 2pc rotor/bracket upgrades for the zx3 or SVT

 

[Todd TCE]

I'll rebutt to an extent.

The wear of pads is due to both piston sizing, pad material and heat. Middle wearing pads is most likely a problem with pad material. Now if what you really mean is leading edge taper then you will find that htis comes from heat generated by the pressure of the leading piston.

Many calipers have differential bores to counter this, however due to the small psiton requirements of the Fucus, none of the calipers I use offer this. There simply is not enough mc to work these larger units. Still the leading edge wear would take quite some time as the overall torque of the brakes is so much greater than stock that excessive heat and wear are not likely.

The dust boot issue can be easily accomdated by the fit of the DP caliper and related bracket to about any (including the Focus) of my kits. Additional cost howeever of about $350.

If 'your friend' would like some assistance is working out his problems I'd be happy to help.

As for the 'all track', I know of no problems with anyone who has installed the larger rotors to this. The system may be high tech but just like ABS it simply measures rotation of the wheel and makes corrective inputs. Rotation is rotation to the sensor.

 

[FocusOnChrist]

I know BAER makes a brake upgrade kit for the focus. The front requires using the SVT spindles to mount it on and the rear can be mounted on the drum disc spindles ONLY. They will not fit the rear of the SVT due to the 4-wheel disc brakes.

 

[CharlesWA]

I know BAER makes a brake upgrade kit for the focus. The front requires using the SVT spindles to mount it on and the rear can be mounted on the drum disc spindles ONLY. They will not fit the rear of the SVT due to the 4-wheel disc brakes.

Have you seen any info of this kit on-line? I checked the Baer web site and it was worthless when it came to looking up details of specific applications.

 

[darkpuppet]

darkpuppet-
I would be very hesitant to touch the brakes at all on a car equipped with AdvanceTrac. Do your homework first, as I know that is a finely calibrated system and I'm not sure it would function properly with larger rotors and different calipers front or rear.

>8^)
ER

That has always been my concern as well, but it's hard to find people who run this setup. But where there's a will, there must be a way.

The Baer setup looks pretty sweet...would probably cost a pretty penny tho, I would like to see if they would offer a rear brake kit for us advance-trac fools.

I like the willwoods as well, but even TCE's solution to the rear-break dilema is less than my personal ideal.

 

[Mike_D]

Thanks for the info Todd...I don't mean to discredit your brake kits in any way, I may have gotten the info wrong but it still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't like them. Hey, some people don't like Fords, does that mean they're wrong...dont take it the wrong way is all i'm saying.

and CharlesWA, search on www.yahoo.com for BAER SVT FOCUS, I came up with quite a few.

 

[CYatTireRack]

We can special order the Baer kit. Consists of 12"x .810" cross-drilled slotted rotors, PBR single piston calipers with high metallic pads, 6061-T6 (aircraft quality) aluminum brackets and fastening hardware and Teflon lined stainless braided brake lines. $1095 plus shipping.

[email protected]

 

[Todd TCE]

No problem at all. I don't expect everyone to like what I sell. Just wanted to share some info on alternate options and the like.

The all-track stuff is interesting. Yes, low volume production for sure. The 'upsize' of the rotor on my package is done for one simple reason, no two; to keep the parking brake and that I cannot find a proper caliper with small enough pistons to keep it in check with both the MC and to balance with the fronts. Cost would be about a wash really give the Ford prices.

 

[Peloton25]

Todd- Thanks for addressing my post on the AdvanceTrac or 'all-track' as you referred to it.

I guess my concern with the AdvanceTrac equipped cars would be that as the car rotates, the computer compensates for that by braking indivdual wheels to help correct that. I would assume, without personally testing the system using larger brakes, that the amount of input would have to be different as the improved brakes should have greater stopping power than stock. It just seems like the system would no longer have all the variables mapped out and either might not work as well, or might work too well.

Again, I'm just speculating, but I did have some lengthy conversations with some SVT engineers about the possibility of adding the system to the SVT Focus. They claimed that the time and expense of recalibrating it for the SVT couldn't be justified. Maybe it needed to be recalibrated based solely on the suspension changes, but maybe the fact that the brake system was entirely different played into that as well.

>8^)
ER

 

[Todd TCE]

Certainly never have driven one so speculation will serve us both! Truth is I know nothing about it aside from its brake parts fit to do the conversion.

The reason I don't feel it would be effected is this; while both rotation and braking are monitored by the systems, the change is done by measuring lock up or slip. These values won't change regardless of what brakes are installed.

Same as ABS; the wheel locks up at a given point regardlss of the brakes. The sensor sees this and reduces pressure. Rotation is rotation in the eye of the magnetic ring. The same speculation could be made for fitting mud tires to it, think about it. Would it have more grip? Not to the computer.

 

[darkpuppet]

No problem at all. I don't expect everyone to like what I sell. Just wanted to share some info on alternate options and the like.

The all-track stuff is interesting. Yes, low volume production for sure. The 'upsize' of the rotor on my package is done for one simple reason, no two; to keep the parking brake and that I cannot find a proper caliper with small enough pistons to keep it in check with both the MC and to balance with the fronts. Cost would be about a wash really give the Ford prices.

is it possible (and how much would it cost) to upgrade the MC and toss in a proportioning valve?

 

[Todd TCE]

Sure if you want to gut the fire wall and replumb the entire system etc. etc. Or you can just 'tub' the car and go proper: a twin MC set up and balance bar with cable adjuster....all it takes is time and money!

 

[P-51]

Darkpuppet, what are you looking for? I mean, why do you want to have bigger brakes?

I too would be leary of changing the braking system on the Advance Trac cars. Not unless it's really necessary. I just don't see the point on a street car. The risk of upsetting the system just isn't outweighed by the extra braking that you don't even need on the street.

As for the Wilwoods...

I'll have a post season tear down coming up soon, and I'll report any unusual wear I see from running them on the street all summer.

Frankly, they increase the durability of the braking system so much, it would even be worth replacing the calipers yearly for a dual purpose track car. Think about it, new calipers are $150 each.

It's pretty easy to go through 1 set of stock type racing pads in a single trackday on a powerful car. At $100 per set of pads (Mintex, Hawk, whatever) it would only take 3 track days to burn enough pads to pay for yearly Wilwood caliper changes.

Consider that the Wilwood setup is so powerful, that I have no noticable wear on my Wilwood racing pads after 200 miles on track...

The total yearly cost on a tracked car is still lower, even if you have to replace calipers every year, which isn't very likely.

I expect, worst case I'd have to replace the pistons and seal, probably cost $50 or so.

Like I said... total yearly cost of the Wilwoods for a tracked car is going to be lower than constantly burning up expensive stock sized pads. Then factor in the increased performance, safety, and confidence... It's well worth the risk that *Maybe* you'll have to rebuild, or replace the calipers.

As for tapered pad wear, etc...

From what ChrisF and I have seen so far, it's not a factor. I think some people used the Wilwood dynalites and/or superlites on really heavy cars, that stressed the calipers too much, and resulted in un-square pad wear (whether it's tapered, or in the middle, etc..) But on the Focus, with these forged superlites, again, it's not an issue.

And here's something else to think about in comparison to the BAER system:

Talk to the Mustang guys who track the car. They get the brakes so hot, they burn the dust shields off the PBRs anyway! So, I figured, if I'm gonna burn them off anyway, might as well use calipers designed not to need them in the first place!

 

[darkpuppet]

Darkpuppet, what are you looking for? I mean, why do you want to have bigger brakes?

I too would be leary of changing the braking system on the Advance Trac cars. Not unless it's really necessary. I just don't see the point on a street car. The risk of upsetting the system just isn't outweighed by the extra braking that you don't even need on the street.

To be honest, I don't think our cars have the greatest braking out there... I can feel slight fade coming up to the set of lights after taking an expressway offramp.

I personally would just like consistent brake performance across the board.

Also, and this is very blatently rice of me, but big 17's with beer coaster brakes just doesn't do it for me.

Sure I'd have more an excuse if I ever track the car, but I won't lie... I'm not ready to thrash my car to that extent just yet...

I'm just exploring the possibilities for anything I would be interested in doing to my car.

The Advance Track is the only unknown variable, but I don't think it would be affected that much. Having had it engage on me seemed to be the same effect as slamming the ABS on, except only at the wheels the car figures need it.

In the snow, the light blinks, there's the usual grinding noise, and if it doesn't get corrected in the 1st moments of the ABS, it hits it hard, and swings the car around... that's what I've noticed anyway.... would be nice to find a white paper on that though, just to be sure.

 

[P-51]

Anybody experiencing fade on the street has something wrong with their brakes. The stock brakes are awesome for this economy car.

I believe the Advance Trac would still work with upgraded brakes, but probably not as effectively. The system MUST have some sort of feedback loop. Anytime the road surface changes, or you put on new tires, the grip levels change. So it will require more or less brake force to achieve the desired effect. So the system has to be adaptable to different tire traction scenarios.

Likewise, it would be adaptable to different brake setups, that have a different brake torque vs. input pressure curve. I *believe* the system would work, provided you got the piston areas right.

But it might not be as effective. For example, it might overdo the desired braking, and have to back off. It might even learn the new system, it's hard to say.

But I just keep coming back to "Why bother if you don't need it."

 

[ZXmurph]

I too would be leary of changing the braking system on the Advance Trac cars. Not unless it's really necessary. I just don't see the point on a street car. The risk of upsetting the system just isn't outweighed by the extra braking that you don't even need on the street.

I confess I had never thought about it much beyond my assumption that was the same as Todd's about rotation being rotation......doesn't A.T. just work in response to rotation disparity? Doesn't the system's "calibration" simply have to do with how much disparity in wheel rotation the system will allow before intervening and how quickly it adjusts the disparity? I still don't get how the brakes themselves would affect that with the feedback loop in place.

If I keep the car, I was going change them up no-brainer.......should I reconsider? Your unfortunate accident was a compelling reminder of the possible value of the system for street driving.