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Discussion Starter #1
Well i took my plugs out today to check them, and for the first time in my cars history, they were all 99% white, with a LITTLE hint of brown on a few VERY small parts of it, but mostly, clean, white, almost like they were brand new

The place where there was some color, was a very light brown, almost rusty looking, but like i said, very little, it was mostly white.

Does this mean its running lean? If so, then those a/f guages are NO good, cause every time i get on it in 3rd/4th it goes full rich, at least thats what the guage says.

I know russel, with headpackage and cams, with 150whp is runing really rich up top, and i have a package that has been dynoed even higher, so maybe i AM runing super lean?

I guess its another reason to get it on a wideband huh??

Should i pull my diablo chip in the meantime, since i heard that the chips lean the fuel out a bit to try and get more power? Ive never seen my plugs white before, they are always very dark...weird
 

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white/grey=lean...my plugs were on for about 8 k...and they looked burned and grey...gotta love it...but. i could care less
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i pulled the chip out, hopefully i have a bit more fuel to carry me over till i hit the dyno and figure out what i need to do...i wonder if im hitting the 5volt cuttoff on the MAFS??

The a/f guage stays in rich all the way to 6700rpm, but then again, who knows how accurate those things are...i bet 14.7 to the guage is still rich...so gotta get to a wideband

I hope i can just tweak the stock injectors with a chip without going to larger injectors, mafs, and all that crap, that just costs more...if i can get aroung a 13.5 or so max with stock injectors and a chip to richen it up, i would be happy....i think im probably somewhere in the 14.5-15 right now, seeing as how russels car hits mid 14's with 150whp
 

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Naz with the testing i have done you will hit 100%duty cycle at about 130 to 135 hp at the wheels

and the mass air hitting 5 volts wont be far behind it

make sure you can watch duty cycle when you go to the dyno and put a volt meter on the mass air

tom
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well, i am getting the obd2 scanner for my laptop that will tell me mafs voltage and duty cycle and all...

I really dont think they are gonna hit 100% at 130...thats way too low, what about all the people runing 150-160whp on stock injectors?????????????????

Im gonna have to get a calibrated mafs and larger injectors IF the mafs voltage gets to 5volts, obveously, and im gonna throw on the 20lb injectors, because thats what i have access to right now...

As far as chips, im not sure at all on what is gonna get done, im not sure what diablo is gonna be able to do at all

I think if i get 20lb injectors and calibrated mafs, the difference isnt gonna be too bad where i MUST get a chip to rescale everything, correct? I will mainly get the chip for extra revs, higher idle, a bit more timing and possibly to do a bit of fuel if they even can after i send them my a/f graph...

When you swap the mafs and injectors, all calibrated for each other, that is what extends the 5volt cuttout to handle more power right? Or was that the chip that rescaled it? I forgot, someone please refresh me on this...
 

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When will you guys learn ,,i have tested it and the ones i have tested ALL hit 100% duty cycle at between 130 and 140hp at the wheels most did it by 135hp

as for what about all the other guys ,,what about all the other guys that were doing 200hp at the wheels and trying to run the stock ones when i first came on here no one beleived me then about the injectors

we allready have one doing 192hp at the wheels n/a you are out of injectors if you go over the 135hp mark

20lb will not be enough i would not go less than a set of 36lb injectors

and yes if you do the mass air to match the injectors you should only need the chip for timing and tweeking the fuel

2nd thought if you do a return fuel system and rais the fuel psi this may be enough to get you bye but only if you dont try to make any more power

get a set of 36lbs injectors mass air to match and a chip before you join the long list of blown zetecs

tom
 

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Discussion Starter #7
tom, that just doesnt make sense

ERIC (pimp27) got the whole NA package from FC and is making 158whp now, he also finally got 24lb injectors, mafs and chip.

NOW, even at 158whp, he runs in the 12.5 range all the way to 7200rpm as far as the graph went...NEVER went above, and even then, he had to get the diablo chip to lean it out a bit, because before it ran even richer...

So why the hell would you posibly need 36lb injectors for a NA car?> Thats insane...isnt it?

And whats all this about 192hp NA cars you guys have...never heard of it, but would LOVE to learn how you guys got 192hp normally aspirated...at what RPM?

Anyways, i really dont see a reason to get such huge injectors.

Also, Airforcefocus, with STOCK injectors, and a chip to richen them up, is doing 158.5whp and runs about 13.1-13.6 MAX...

so where is the need for huge injectors? Im a bit confused now, i would have though 20lb would be PLENTY
 

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i heard a few months ago Tom would be putting together N/A engines with output of 190hp.

i have no comment on the injector issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
190at the wheel or crank?

At the wheel would be some remarkable stuff, not even sure if its very possible without HUGE modifications to the ENTIRE engine

at the crank, its beliavable, still really high, but who knows...

190crank is about 165whp right?? I think with a good intake manifold and 8000rpm redline, its very possible
 

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As I think you may already know the Ford Racing manifold is quite superior over the stock one. Have you ever looked into it?
 

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As you know,A/F gauges are reading the o2.
As you know,the ecm bypasses the o2 at WOT.
Thus the air/fuel being full rich on WOT.

[ 10-08-2002, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: Eggyolk1 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #12
yeah but even when the pcm bypasses the o2 sensor, the o2 sensor is STILL getting a reading, so the a/f guage should be gettting somewhat of a accurate reading, if its running rich, the o2 sensor, even though not used, is still reading it...

TOM - how do you find duty cycle? How usefull is pulsewidth? The obd2 scanner i ordered for my laptop will read the mafs voltage and also pulsewidth, whatever that means, im not sure if it does duty cycle, but how hard is it to read the duty cycle???
 

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Discussion Starter #13
and about those white plugs

I am starting to think that its running lean due to something else, not the power levels, because when i had the head installed, and the plugs were pulled, they were white back then, that means even on my old setup, they ran lean...and my old setup, usually left the plugs prety nice and dark, rich...

Hmmm....fuel pump? MAFS? What could it be? Im gonna check out everything i can on the obd2 scanner i get this week, but i really wanna find out why my plugs are so damn white
 

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You see my A/F ratio on my dyno chart, yet my plugs are white also. It just really means that there isn't any un used fuel left in the cylinder after the combustion process. Which basically signifies a good complete burn. Its not a BIG deal, nothing to really freak out over on a NA motor. Click me to diagnose the color of the spark plug. Put your chip back in and take a chill pill.

[ 10-09-2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Russell ]
 

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i second russell he's basicaly right on an N/A motor with head work and a few bolts on's shouldn't hurt anything but run a turbo and or n2o and thats where you run into major problems
 

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Discussion Starter #17
chip aint going back in....yet, if anything its gonna be even leaner

Russell, taking a chill pill even with your a/f is scary, at 150whp youre already pretty damn lean, and you even used the mafterburner to richen it up didnt you?

Hey , i looked at your old dyno where you had like 151whp and only 134ft/lb of torque and you would dip in the 10's on the a/f where the torque peaked

Your new dyno youre at 145ft/lb, did you lean it out using the mafterburner in the midrange, because it doesnt seem to go rich anymore? If so, thats pretty impressive, 10ft/lb gain in the midrange just with tuning, i like that
 

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Discussion Starter #18
PS..im gona go to a local dyno tomoorow JUST to check a/f on the dyno and make a quick 3 runs, no tuning, no chip, nothing...

and this weekend im gonna go to henants and do a few hours of tuning on his dyno(although he doesnt have a/f)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
sounds like thats what eric is doing, and he has 158whp and 12.5 a/f ratio

so i guess it works/???????????

Confusing.....
 
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