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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well i took my plugs out today to check them, and for the first time in my cars history, they were all 99% white, with a LITTLE hint of brown on a few VERY small parts of it, but mostly, clean, white, almost like they were brand new

The place where there was some color, was a very light brown, almost rusty looking, but like i said, very little, it was mostly white.

Does this mean its running lean? If so, then those a/f guages are NO good, cause every time i get on it in 3rd/4th it goes full rich, at least thats what the guage says.

I know russel, with headpackage and cams, with 150whp is runing really rich up top, and i have a package that has been dynoed even higher, so maybe i AM runing super lean?

I guess its another reason to get it on a wideband huh??

Should i pull my diablo chip in the meantime, since i heard that the chips lean the fuel out a bit to try and get more power? Ive never seen my plugs white before, they are always very dark...weird
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
i pulled the chip out, hopefully i have a bit more fuel to carry me over till i hit the dyno and figure out what i need to do...i wonder if im hitting the 5volt cuttoff on the MAFS??

The a/f guage stays in rich all the way to 6700rpm, but then again, who knows how accurate those things are...i bet 14.7 to the guage is still rich...so gotta get to a wideband

I hope i can just tweak the stock injectors with a chip without going to larger injectors, mafs, and all that crap, that just costs more...if i can get aroung a 13.5 or so max with stock injectors and a chip to richen it up, i would be happy....i think im probably somewhere in the 14.5-15 right now, seeing as how russels car hits mid 14's with 150whp
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well, i am getting the obd2 scanner for my laptop that will tell me mafs voltage and duty cycle and all...

I really dont think they are gonna hit 100% at 130...thats way too low, what about all the people runing 150-160whp on stock injectors?????????????????

Im gonna have to get a calibrated mafs and larger injectors IF the mafs voltage gets to 5volts, obveously, and im gonna throw on the 20lb injectors, because thats what i have access to right now...

As far as chips, im not sure at all on what is gonna get done, im not sure what diablo is gonna be able to do at all

I think if i get 20lb injectors and calibrated mafs, the difference isnt gonna be too bad where i MUST get a chip to rescale everything, correct? I will mainly get the chip for extra revs, higher idle, a bit more timing and possibly to do a bit of fuel if they even can after i send them my a/f graph...

When you swap the mafs and injectors, all calibrated for each other, that is what extends the 5volt cuttout to handle more power right? Or was that the chip that rescaled it? I forgot, someone please refresh me on this...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
tom, that just doesnt make sense

ERIC (pimp27) got the whole NA package from FC and is making 158whp now, he also finally got 24lb injectors, mafs and chip.

NOW, even at 158whp, he runs in the 12.5 range all the way to 7200rpm as far as the graph went...NEVER went above, and even then, he had to get the diablo chip to lean it out a bit, because before it ran even richer...

So why the hell would you posibly need 36lb injectors for a NA car?> Thats insane...isnt it?

And whats all this about 192hp NA cars you guys have...never heard of it, but would LOVE to learn how you guys got 192hp normally aspirated...at what RPM?

Anyways, i really dont see a reason to get such huge injectors.

Also, Airforcefocus, with STOCK injectors, and a chip to richen them up, is doing 158.5whp and runs about 13.1-13.6 MAX...

so where is the need for huge injectors? Im a bit confused now, i would have though 20lb would be PLENTY
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
190at the wheel or crank?

At the wheel would be some remarkable stuff, not even sure if its very possible without HUGE modifications to the ENTIRE engine

at the crank, its beliavable, still really high, but who knows...

190crank is about 165whp right?? I think with a good intake manifold and 8000rpm redline, its very possible
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
yeah but even when the pcm bypasses the o2 sensor, the o2 sensor is STILL getting a reading, so the a/f guage should be gettting somewhat of a accurate reading, if its running rich, the o2 sensor, even though not used, is still reading it...

TOM - how do you find duty cycle? How usefull is pulsewidth? The obd2 scanner i ordered for my laptop will read the mafs voltage and also pulsewidth, whatever that means, im not sure if it does duty cycle, but how hard is it to read the duty cycle???
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
and about those white plugs

I am starting to think that its running lean due to something else, not the power levels, because when i had the head installed, and the plugs were pulled, they were white back then, that means even on my old setup, they ran lean...and my old setup, usually left the plugs prety nice and dark, rich...

Hmmm....fuel pump? MAFS? What could it be? Im gonna check out everything i can on the obd2 scanner i get this week, but i really wanna find out why my plugs are so damn white
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
chip aint going back in....yet, if anything its gonna be even leaner

Russell, taking a chill pill even with your a/f is scary, at 150whp youre already pretty damn lean, and you even used the mafterburner to richen it up didnt you?

Hey , i looked at your old dyno where you had like 151whp and only 134ft/lb of torque and you would dip in the 10's on the a/f where the torque peaked

Your new dyno youre at 145ft/lb, did you lean it out using the mafterburner in the midrange, because it doesnt seem to go rich anymore? If so, thats pretty impressive, 10ft/lb gain in the midrange just with tuning, i like that
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
PS..im gona go to a local dyno tomoorow JUST to check a/f on the dyno and make a quick 3 runs, no tuning, no chip, nothing...

and this weekend im gonna go to henants and do a few hours of tuning on his dyno(although he doesnt have a/f)
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
ok...

hey russell, you LOSE power if you go richer man, if you take it to 12:1 like you said, youre gonna KILL torque and hp, richer doesnt add power...if youre around 14:1 youre about maxed out on power as far as FUEL tuning goes...

Like tom says, leaner=meaner till you blow up

But who knows how lean i am, the local dyno wants to charge $125 no matter how little time i take and i dont wanna pay that much to just make a quick run to check a/f
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
help me too

as long as the a/f ratio is good, does it even matter what duty cycle its at?

Lets say youre at 99% duty cycle, or even 100% or whatever, but your A/F graph is a nice 13.1-13.5 and never does anything funky, why would we even care? Or does it make a difference somehow?

How is that worse than having duty cycle at lets say 70% and the same a/f or even richer then?

Does it damage the injectors? DOes it put strain on anything? Help me please, im heading to the dyno, hopefulyl tomorow just to get an a/f readout, tuning will be done at henants shop this weekend, i get more time there

Anyways...if my a/f is anywhere below 14 the whole time, i dont think there would be a need to upgrade? But im guessing its above 14.1 or whatever, it would have to be if im over 150whp

Unless the year they made my car, or my computer code somehow tends to run richer or something

White plugs though...so i gotta be somewhere around 14

jon said that if you hit 5 volts power would drop DRAMATICALLY, so im guessing im not hitting 5volts, but on naders and airforcedfocus dyno, when there is a small dip in power at about 6500rpm, maybe thats when it hits 100% cycle and even though its still giving fuel, its not adding any more? Maybe that a sign of 100% duty cycle/????????

And again, HOW DO YOU CHECK INJECTOR DUTY CYCLE?? Please tell me

[ 10-09-2002, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
hey man, mine look just like that...AT 166.1whp though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you think thats good?

Tom, i will soon be checking my a/f with a wideband, for now i pulled the chip, lost a bit of low end torque, but dont wanna risk running even leaner with more timing

[ 10-13-2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: nazthug ]
 
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