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focaljet-1
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And YOU are the one who brought up the whole Titan discussion taking it off track.SilverSVT said:
I think we should close this thread...its European cars vs American Cars for elevenbillonth time...
You were also the one to point this out first:
So basically, the reason this thread turned into Euro Vs American again is because you started it down that direction....
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No its not!
It's based on a Volvo platform the S80 to be exact
I never said anything about Toyo, they obviously haven't done as well at entering the full size american truck market. Nissan has done a much better job with a Model that can actually compete at price, size, and base power.SilverSVT said:
Of course they're not going to take the full size american truck market overnight. But the Titan has made a statement by winning many comparo's against Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. But the Full size truck market is America's last big stake in the automobile market, nothing will happen overnight.
Also you have to remember your quoting F-"Series" numbers i assume. Thats a entire line of trucks compared to one model from Titan. Bring the numbers down with just the F-150 and comparable models to the Titan's models. Still the F-series will sell more, probably easily double. But Nissan is making a dent into sales that Ford and Chevy don't like.
Fleet sales equal inflated numbers, i would suspect F-Series fleet numbers are probably easily in the 30-45% range of total sales. But that number is totally out of my ass as i don't have time to do that research right now, but its an estimated guess.
Trolling because ever since our first squable i've noticed your just countering a large percentage of my posts "just cause". And many aren't in just in an opposing point of view in a friendly matter. You need to slow your self down and act with more respect to others on this board.
Plus, its Thameth not Thameth. Might want to keep that in mind.
You are wrong wrong wrong. Except for the styling, a loaded Accord EX V6 is a superior car to the TSX. It has pretty much the same interior, same transmission, similar suspension geometry and tuning, and a better engine. And in fact a base model Euro Accord has an interior comparable to a base US Accord and an engine comparable to a US Civic. The reason we have the Accord we do has nothing to do with production cost. It is because Honda wanted to sell a larger Accord in the US market. The weak styling was a lapse in judgement, not a cost-cutting measure.SilverSVT said:
Also note that for 2006 Honda has switched the JDM Accord from the Euro model to the US model.
Most cars on European roads are not high-end BMWs. They are cars like the Fiat Punto and Renault Clio. Americans would not be impressed. Americans would, however, be impressed by many of the Euro Fords, simply because they are good cars and many US-market Fords are not.
A typical well-equipped Civic/Corolla/Mazda 3 today goes for about $20K. If Ford were to position the Focus as a true competitor, they too would be able to charge $20K, and thereby earn much more profit on the car than they do today.
The point I was trying to make is that as a plaform the US model Accord is cheaper then the European Model thats sold as a TSX in the States. I would hope that a Loaded Accord V6 is nicer then a TSX, which only has a 200HP 4 banger in it. If the more expesive to produce (as a platform) Euro Accord was sold here as the US Spec Accord, Honda would be losing money. The Accord has to cover more ground then the TSX, thus it needs to be cheapened up so Honda has to make a profit off ituujjj said:
I know this...hell I got a ride in a 7 Series Cab with a 5 speed when I was stationed in Germany, plus most BMW and Mercedes had steel wheels on them etc etc that made them cheaper then their US breathern.
I also don't disagree with your assement of the Focus. Thats why the car went to **** in 2005, is that Ford needed a car to cover the the Low end and high end of the price range of a compact car, since the Escort went away. They cheapened it up so they didnt lose their shirt nearly as bad as they would if they still made the 1st Gen Focus. Thats why its so important for Ford to have B-class car to take up the low end slack of market, so the Focus can be pushed back up market and make $$$ for Ford.
THE ONLY REASON EURO ACCORD IS TSX IN USA IS SIZE. ACURA CAN HANDLE AN ODDBALL CAR... HONDA CANNOT.SilverSVT said:
Secondly.. in the US you are comparing Acura to Accord.. Have no doubt that the US TSX is more luxurious than the EU Accord// WHY? Bcause IT IS AN ACURA.. hnda had to make it nicer to sell it for the premium Acura price..
And Finally.. if you have 2 markets. Both want to buy a midsize car for which tye pay about $20k in producion costs (taxes excluded), but have different preferences of what they actually want to pay for, yo uend up with two different cars. Europeans are OK with smaller car and weaker engine, but they want a nicer interior and latest electronics. So Honda floats money they save on dropping in a chea pengine and the money saved on steel and pours it into brake electronics and superior plastics.
Ameicans want a larger car taking more steel and want the big engine, but they could care less in their accord about driving dynamics, and upscale inerior.. finally, they rather have a car that doesn;t EVER need to go to serive, than have THE latests in brake electronics...
It is all about market preferences.. Honda nd Toyota know it.. once you have a car so finely tuned for the customer you lose the abilit to sell it world wide.. Mazda6 is too small and too stiff for US market and is bombing. The Huyndai Sonata is donsidered too plush, too large and too american in the EU market (because it was straight up designed for americans)..
Between good cars, your analogy of EU = GREAT, US= YUCK doesn;t work.. it is all about matching the market demand.
Igor
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Are you serious the FUSION IS SMALLER THAN THE MONDEO? Have yu ever seen the 2nd Gen Mondeo? Go get your ruler out and check again. As for the 2nd Gen Mondeo and the FIVEHUNDRED I have seen them parked side by side and the a,b and c pillars are damn near exactly the same. I was lucky to see the 2 cars parked nose to nose in Vilseck back in the begining of Dec. I had a chance to look under the cars as well, imagine that they look EXACTLY the same. Kinda like the S40 and the C1 Focus. Too bad as my local Ford dealer is a Ford and Volvo dealer and most of these car are parked side by side on the lot. When was the last time you were in europe checking out the cars? When I see a new car out I will stop and look over it from top to bottom or go and rent it at the rental car shop.igor2 said:
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15,527 Posts
Based off of the cars? How about ARE the same cars. A Mazda 6 looks the same here as in the US. The Honda Accord and the TSX have very small differences that only someone around european cars would know. How is a Mondeo bland? The new F150 uses the same dashboard setup as well as the FIVEHUNDRED. As for E-spec cars not doing well over in the US it sure seems like the FOCUS did well in the US or this board would not be here.igor2 said:
Oh yeah and a Honda Accord Type R sold here in Germany is just as nice as a Acura TSX except it does not come with an automatic. It actually comes with some options that are not avalible in the US.
Jinstall..
How did Mondeo grow from Contour size to Fivehundred size? I would need some numbers... I am too lazy and too doubtful that you know what you are talking about to actually look them up myself..
Last time I checked al european midsizes were much smaller than the US ones...and Fivehundred is a LARGE sedan... not a midsize.
About the E spec cars in the US... I am specifically talking about midsizes.. The Compacts seem united in size, but Americans demand their Midszes sized up a bit. The Acura TSX (E spec Accord) and the Mazda6 are not suitable for mass sales in the US because they just do not fit the midsize formula. The NA spec Fusion is right on mark with its dimensions for a US spec Midsize... so it is fiting to point out it is built on a STRETCHED Mazda6 platform....
And about Blandness of Modeo, well, The understated euro look does not sell very well with the blue oval on the grille.. again .. the Market tastes dictate here.. I am not saying that US Camry looks better than the E spec Avensis... or that the E spec Accord looks worse than the NA spec one (quite the oppposite)..but for what Ford is doing, Mondeo is a no go design wise
Igor
How did Mondeo grow from Contour size to Fivehundred size? I would need some numbers... I am too lazy and too doubtful that you know what you are talking about to actually look them up myself..
Last time I checked al european midsizes were much smaller than the US ones...and Fivehundred is a LARGE sedan... not a midsize.
About the E spec cars in the US... I am specifically talking about midsizes.. The Compacts seem united in size, but Americans demand their Midszes sized up a bit. The Acura TSX (E spec Accord) and the Mazda6 are not suitable for mass sales in the US because they just do not fit the midsize formula. The NA spec Fusion is right on mark with its dimensions for a US spec Midsize... so it is fiting to point out it is built on a STRETCHED Mazda6 platform....
And about Blandness of Modeo, well, The understated euro look does not sell very well with the blue oval on the grille.. again .. the Market tastes dictate here.. I am not saying that US Camry looks better than the E spec Avensis... or that the E spec Accord looks worse than the NA spec one (quite the oppposite)..but for what Ford is doing, Mondeo is a no go design wise
Igor
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1,497 Posts
yea im guessing america made the contour so much smaller to fit it in the price catagory they wanted it in.
SilverSVT said:
Ok here is the Ford NA lineup:
Ford Fivehundred 200.7"
NA Spec Fusion is 190"
NA Spec Focus ZX4 is 175.2"
Where does you beloved Mondeo fit.. to put your numbers in perspective:
Mazda6 Sedan is 186.6" and is considered too small for NA Midsize Market..
There you go
Igor
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