[ev1svt]

1.) Why do P-51's responses in this post sound so "un-P-51" like?
2.) I dont care what Focus Central says, blowing spark plugs like fuses is stupid and ridiculous. It is not a method of tuning and/or safeguarding that I would recommend to anyone on any car. Do you know what happens to all those ground straps? If you think plugs are going to save your engine your wrong. They have just been lucky. Anything glowing in the combustion chamber creates a problem. Keep the plugs cold, cut the ground straps off even with the side of the electrode and gap to side.
3.) I thought I was brave. Tobyboom's plans for a 200 shot has got in awe. I think I'll settle on a new goal...2nd fastest "nitrous only" car on the jet. Good luck man, I wish you the best!
4.) Everyone seems to say they are fine on their a/f, but everytime I ask for another nitrous a/f dyno, I get ignored. A bit fishy if you ask me. Nitrous users, get on a dyno first! It wont make you immune to an engine disaster (I could blow mine tonight) but it sure wont hurt.

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: ev1svt ]</p>

 

[P-51]

But that's what I'm getting at.

Naz's method:

10 shot: OK
20 shot: OK
30 shot: OK
40 shot: OK
50 shot: OK
60 shot: OK
70 shot: OK
80 shot: OK
90 shot: OK
100 shot: BOOM!

1dumpassscreenname's method:

100 shot: BOOM!

See, this is what I'm asking. What difference does it make if you go slow or not. The end result is the same. If the problem is undetectable, you're gonna move your way up slowly until you kill it anyway.

 

[ZXmurph]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ev1svt:

2.) I dont care what Focus Central says, blowing spark plugs like fuses is stupid and ridiculous. It is not a method of tuning and/or safeguarding that I would recommend to anyone on any car. <hr></blockquote>

I didn't think I was the only one that thought the "engine fuse" comment is pretty silly....

 

[nazthug]

no one EVER said it was a way to tune a car guys, damn, you love stuffin words in my mouth huh, i just said its better for a plug to go bad than the engine.

 

[ZXmurph]

neither I, nor anyone else, is STUFFING words in your mouth.

I have just never, ever, BLOWN plugs in my entire automotive life.

Is it another thing to "tolerate" with nitrous? why?
and how is the plug going bad "protecting" the engine?
why not protect the engine right and make sure the plugs wouldn't fry the electrodes off in the first place?

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: ZXmurph ]</p>

 

[nazthug]

its just a term, the word fuse i used may have been too harsh, it blew because we were running super lean and had a leak, i was also shocked that it blew and nothing else happened...car runs perfectly stilll, beats me, but better than killing the engine


oh, MURPH, sorry, when i said you, i mean as in YOU PEOPLE< it wasnt dirrected towards you, sorry buddy

But what i really wanna see is that fogger system Tobyboom was mentioning with a built bottom end, the way a 75shot pulls, i cant even imagine what the 200shot would do..OMG
[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: nazthug ]

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: nazthug ]

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: nazthug ]</p>

 

[BLOWNSTANG]

For people that don't have access to a dyno, the spark plug is the next best thing. It'll pretty much tell you what's going on with A/F and timing. I've always considered the head gasket as the "fuse".

 

[nazthug]

yeah, reading the spark plug is i guess what i should have also said, its an accurate way to tell how your car is running, wether its detonating and how rich/lean it runs

 

[det_riot]

you can run a 100 shot on a stock motor it just takes more tunning..

i would run it direct port with a controler to start.
that way you can tune each cylinder and it isn't instant stress on the motor.
you need an ignition set up to pull out timing. also colder plugs.

then the window switch and fuel pressure switch.

100+ shot is a lot of a single fogger to spray evenly in the motor.

 

[BLOWNSTANG]

1dumbscreename. By chance, did you check the plugs after your engine blew? And you wrote that you shifted into 3rd at 3600rpm. Did you see what the rpms dropped to? It may have dropped to a rpm that was to low for the engine to handle the nitrous. Then you hit 4th(do you remember at what rpm) and it blew.

 

[ev1svt]

Naz, I didnt put words into your mouth. I used "and/or" meaning safeguarding (which you implied) and/or tuning. Blowing plugs like fuses just wouldnt be something I would be bragging about (not that Im putting words in your mouth) and hopefully its not a testament to the way FC does things.

Blownstang. No way I would rely on plugs. Unless your willing to make runs in 500 rpm increments from 3K to a peak rpm from a 3rd or 4th gear pull and remove each and every plug its a waste. Making a run and removing a plug simply tells you the end result, how would you know you werent 18:1 a/f from 3k-3.5k rpm? You wouldnt. How do people spend 500-1000 dollars on a poweradder and wont spend 65 dollars to dial it in correctly. IMO, there is no excuse for it. I used to have to make a good long drive to dyno, but I still did it, even with n/a upgrades on my SVT Contour. Now with a dyno (dynojet 248c) less than 1 mile from my house, Id be an idiot not to use it all the time.

 

[nazthug]

no evst1, its not at all, i think i said many times THE ONLY reason they were blowing is because we had an intake manifold leak, with we replaced within 1 hour and everything was GOOD, i said it more for the fact that i was surprised that the motor was tough enough to take and it and keep runing normally.

But yes, you guys are right, with the right tuning, im sure you could even run a 150shot on a stock block, hell, tom and jon have both put out over 250whp on a stock block. Yes with direct injection and staged shots and timing control, you can run more, i was however talking about the basic kit that everyone on the market can now get, with 1 fuel and 1 nos solenoid being the only things avaiable.

 

[det_riot]

also how hot was your motor all ready before spraying?

you never want to spray after you have been driving around for a long time.

when ever i go to the track i get back in line shut down the car, leave the bottle heater on, and pop my hood to cool the motor down.

 

[nazthug]

well, maybe at 85shot you will blow something smaller than a hole in your block the size of a fist, but thats only a maybe

Know what i mean rob?

I guess, though, with our powdered rods, its either an ON/OFF, they either break or dont, so maybe you really cant slowly push it and see what happens. But i wouldnt run a 100shot on a stock block with only a solenoid of fuel spraying into your intake for fuel management. At that big of a shot, you REALY need to retard your timing a bit with a digital ignition, we were running 3-5 degrees of retard on the 75shot on the FC car, and that car has been beaten up forever and still runs PERFECTLY, did you know that car actually has higher compression than stock, about 10:1, and still takes 75shots daily?


Its all about management, up to a certain point ofcourse. That car with the n2o is making WELL over 200whp, and traps usually about 105mph in the 1/4 with full interior and bodykit. You gotta watch fuel and timing when you run that much, its better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Tobyboom]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 1dumbassscreename:
hey Toby, what did you do to prepare for the 200 shot and what would you guys suggest that I do different so next time the engine may stay in tact?? thanks guys

<hr></blockquote>

Well, I've got Crower Rods, JE 10.5:1 pistons, cryo treated the crank, block, and the main caps. Thats mainly what I have done to prep the bottom end. On the top end, I have Ferrea stainless steel 1mm bigger valves, Crower valve springs and titanium retainers. As far as ignition, I've got the MSD DIS-2 to pull out some timing while on the bottle. I'm not sure as to hom much I'll be pulling out. That will be determined when I get to the dyno. I'll keep you posted as it should be about another 2 or 3 weeks til completion.

 

[empiredj]

Toby -

You too??

Don't stop there, if these guys with turbos can make 400hp, how come nitrous powered cars can't?

Besides a 400hp nitrous powered car is more streetable and gets better gas mileage... =)

I had a NX kit with 15lbs. But somebody wanted to more than I did, so I sold it too him for a profit (did I mention I was a NX dealer too??)

Anyway I'm going to push my single nozzle kit up to 100hp on the stock block and maybe try 125hp all with progressive control and a new clutch. Then when I finally finish my new/used block, I'm going to add a direct port kit to my single nozzle system.

I'm still working out all the details and trying to figure out how I'm going to get high enough octane fuel for a shot that big. Convert to Alky/Nitrous injection? Then I'll have to upgrade my ignition because it's harder to light alky than gasoline.

Other issues are amount of nitrous needed to make 400-500hp, even 600hp. Looks like I'll be using two one 15lbs now, and two 12lbs carbon fiber bottles later. At 200 or 300hp shot, I'll get about 6-8 passes out of a 15lbs bottle. I should have enough on board to make at least 10-15 passes at full power with twin bottles.

And fuel, I think the stock pump will give up around 100hp. I hope the Holley 255lph in-tank pump works in the 2nd gen Neons and my fuel supply problems would be solved.

But I plan on finding the limits of 100 octane unleaded fuel. From my math I think 200hp is about the limit if compression ratio is under 10:1 and igintion timing is kept near stock. At 1000psi of bottle pressure, I see no reason why I can't break 350-370hp at the wheels.

If you have any questions on how to make serious numbers with nitrous, let me know. I think I have looked at it at every angle.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tobyboom:
Welcome to the club man!!!!!

Dont puss out on the 100 shot Build the bottom end and go with a 200 shot fogger like I am doing.

[ 07-19-2002: Message edited by: Tobyboom ]<hr></blockquote>

 

[empiredj]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 1dumbassscreename:
BAM
I just made the list of blown motors, someone tell me where I sign up!!

for real though, this sucks the big_________!! I had a 75 shot and everything was fine then the 100.... WOOOOHOOOOOO was that fast thru 3rd and then KABOOOOOMMMMMMM I left 2 rods on the local highway, but man was I moving!!

dont get me wrong, this is a bad situation but I was dynoed at 195.6 w/75 shot, this must have been around 220 maybe, which is mad power. O yeah, the plugs looked awesome, and the head is in awesome shape from what I can tell, how would I go about getting this one ported and polished so I can replace the head on my new motor.

Get this guys, once the shot hit, tires chirped in 3rd, @ 3600 rpm, w/nitto drags,I am telling everyone to build up the motor and throw this shot on it. Disappointment is not an issue.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry to hear that, at least you had a little fun before it went!

Good to see your not blaming the nitrous system for your engine failure, you know and why and how to prevent it in the future.

Anybody wanna do a group purchase on Eagle connecting rods??

 

[empiredj]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by det_riot:
you can run a 100 shot on a stock motor it just takes more tunning..

i would run it direct port with a controler to start.
that way you can tune each cylinder and it isn't instant stress on the motor.
you need an ignition set up to pull out timing. also colder plugs.

then the window switch and fuel pressure switch.

100+ shot is a lot of a single fogger to spray evenly in the motor.<hr></blockquote>

I totally agree...

It seems people forget that as RPM's build, cylinder pressure goes down because the exhaust valves are opening faster at 6000rpm than they are at 3000rpm.

With a controller you can "spread" the torque creation that nitrous gives you over a much wider rpm band. This would relieve cylinder pressure at low rpm and improve traction by bring in the nitrous slower and more linear.

People seem to think 50hp is the limit for the Focus/ZX2 engine. I say you can run at least 75hp with a progressive controller.

 

[1dumbassscreename]

BLOWN,
I hit the bottle @ 3600 and let off at 5000 cause I was really excited

then hit again @right around 4000 in 4th was around 90 when it blew and man was it a blast

Also, I did pull all the plugs and they looked as good as they did when I pulled them 40 mins before when I was getting the bottle filled. no grey at all and no moisture either.
EV1: I DO have the dyno with A/F but i cannot post it cause I do not know how and I dont have a scanner.
EMPIRE: RODS RODS RODS!!!! yeah count me in

 

[ev1svt]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 1dumbassscreename:

EV1: I DO have the dyno with A/F but i cannot post it cause I do not know how and I dont have a scanner.
<hr></blockquote>

Thats ok, give me your a/f readings by torque and rpm in 500 rpm increments from your starting rpm to cut-off.