Just wondered what some of your thoughts where on one... See my sig for previous mods, and how much of a difference does it make with what i have already done. Might as well ask too, what size socket it the crankshaft bolt, and what do you torque it to?
anyone recomend getting a UDP?
Will007
41 - 55 of 55 Posts
OrangeSVT03- Your comment about how the water pump turns slower is excatly what i was thinking- how would this part effect the longevity of my cars engine?
BrokenSVT- You mentioned the pump should be turned slower because of a increaed Rev limit? I don't really know what you mean because i don't plan on staying above 7600 RPM for very long at any one time.
I think if you where to add Red line water wetter? i think thats what it is called, it would "help" compensate for the fact you pump is turning a little slower than normal... Anyone have any experience with that stuff, perhaps datalog to see if your coolant temps became in lower with it in?
BrokenSVT- You mentioned the pump should be turned slower because of a increaed Rev limit? I don't really know what you mean because i don't plan on staying above 7600 RPM for very long at any one time.
I think if you where to add Red line water wetter? i think thats what it is called, it would "help" compensate for the fact you pump is turning a little slower than normal... Anyone have any experience with that stuff, perhaps datalog to see if your coolant temps became in lower with it in?
What I mentioned about the pump being more efficient applies regardless of a raised rev limit. I mention the rev limit thing because that makes it even more important. I'm sure someone will chime in here, but by spinning the pump a bit slower, it SHOULD become more efficient because the pump isn't spinning furiously. I'm trying to think of a good analogy for you 
OK--here's one, although maybe not pertinent, because it's kinda the tail wagging the dog. Think of the old merry-go-rounds on the playground. Assume you're the one standing to the side spinning it. It's always easier to spin it hard if it's moving slower. If the thing is moving really fast, it's harder to get your hand in there, moving faster than the ride, to speed it up further. Again, the tail wagging the dog, but the best analogy I could think up.
An example: The SR20DET. Notorious for overheating. The fix: slow the pump with an underdrive pulley, and a lower-temp thermostat. Don't flame-I know the SR20DET's waterpump was poorly engineered. But the example still applies. If you spin a pump faster than it was designed to go, it won't work as well. Slow it down in relation to everything else, it works as intended...
Now, John(Orange) may be right about the longevity of our particular application. I dunno. His situation is unique(329 whp), so I don't know...
Greg
OK--here's one, although maybe not pertinent, because it's kinda the tail wagging the dog. Think of the old merry-go-rounds on the playground. Assume you're the one standing to the side spinning it. It's always easier to spin it hard if it's moving slower. If the thing is moving really fast, it's harder to get your hand in there, moving faster than the ride, to speed it up further. Again, the tail wagging the dog, but the best analogy I could think up.
An example: The SR20DET. Notorious for overheating. The fix: slow the pump with an underdrive pulley, and a lower-temp thermostat. Don't flame-I know the SR20DET's waterpump was poorly engineered. But the example still applies. If you spin a pump faster than it was designed to go, it won't work as well. Slow it down in relation to everything else, it works as intended...
Now, John(Orange) may be right about the longevity of our particular application. I dunno. His situation is unique(329 whp), so I don't know...
Greg
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4,427 Posts
Will,
I'm looking at it from a "I dont want to cook my engine" stand point.
The SVT cools fine with the waterpump at its normal rotation speed, but when you slow it down and your sitting still in summer traffic the temps can get hot quickly.
Personally I would rather have the coolant flow more at lower rpms than the 1-3whp you may gain by doing the UDP. On the stock temp gauges there isnt much difference between 180* and 240* so you really cant tell how hot it is without a datalogger.
Granted the chance of a fan failing is slim, but it can happen.
I'm looking at it from a "I dont want to cook my engine" stand point.
The SVT cools fine with the waterpump at its normal rotation speed, but when you slow it down and your sitting still in summer traffic the temps can get hot quickly.
Personally I would rather have the coolant flow more at lower rpms than the 1-3whp you may gain by doing the UDP. On the stock temp gauges there isnt much difference between 180* and 240* so you really cant tell how hot it is without a datalogger.
Granted the chance of a fan failing is slim, but it can happen.
And from a different side, I look at it as another way to keep me from having to replace my steering pump again from overspinning it on track and blowing my power steering stuff up (new rack, pump and lines.)
So for me it wasn't even all about the power, but the help in that field while on track.
So for me it wasn't even all about the power, but the help in that field while on track.
UDP's are fine. On average 3 whp some less some more. None of them are night and day. We do have to worry about vibration damping and it's effects over time.
Personally I had one for a while and took it off when I went turbo because 3 whp was not worth the possibilities of long term vibration damage, but if I were still NA, I'd still have it. Make your own choice, there are dangers, some show up earlier some never show. Just be aware of dangers and make your own decision
Personally I had one for a while and took it off when I went turbo because 3 whp was not worth the possibilities of long term vibration damage, but if I were still NA, I'd still have it. Make your own choice, there are dangers, some show up earlier some never show. Just be aware of dangers and make your own decision
Any time you get that many components spinning and you ask them to stay in a certain position, you get vibrations, no matter how balanced those components are. Stock damper units have rubber and/or silicon components that help to dampen these vibrations.Hot_SVT said:how does vibration effect the engine and how exactly does the stock harmonic balancer do its job. Also, if the new UDP is a balanced unit, shouldnt the vibration factor be null anyways? I dont know, I'm asking.
Basically the crank wants to vibrate up and down. A balanced UDP just doesn't contribute further to the vibrations. They have no dampening elements (at least they usually don't).
oh man...let's not go there. isnt that discussion getting played?
If you are going to get one, my understanding is that you will see better gain from a single Crank pulley than a set. Thats where my recommendation woud go...single pulley and some ground wires to try to offset any flicker of your lights you might get. As far as cooling, I have a Black svt and summer in CO gets kinda hot. I have run it in 90-100 degree heat with no cooling issues or high engine temps. If you are really worried about it, you might want your fans to kick on a little earlier...you can mod that.
If you are going to get one, my understanding is that you will see better gain from a single Crank pulley than a set. Thats where my recommendation woud go...single pulley and some ground wires to try to offset any flicker of your lights you might get. As far as cooling, I have a Black svt and summer in CO gets kinda hot. I have run it in 90-100 degree heat with no cooling issues or high engine temps. If you are really worried about it, you might want your fans to kick on a little earlier...you can mod that.
Yeah, I think i'll get one, i need something else for the car, if i don't buy something it will go into my wifes "Coach, or other expensive purse fund"... I really would just like to get the rest of the bolt ons at one time though, you know...
"UDP" ORP, Cam Pulley, and i think a stiffer engine mount will take some of the slop out of my 1st to 2nd shift, and to third for that matter... With a STS it becomes a lot more evident...
I suppose i could complinet it with some better ground wires, coil pack and better plugs and wires? That is kinda last on the list though. I might buy a Pro Racer Package for my XCal when i get off my butt and invest in a laptop and see what i can learn poking around with fuel tables and timing adjusting...
I feel like this thread has had more discussion about a single part changing your car than any other so far! Really good information, and opinons i can value. I was also wondering if it is possible to get more out of your cold air intake by adjusting the "gain?" on the MAF output voltage, with a Pro Racer Package or something? anyone know?
"UDP" ORP, Cam Pulley, and i think a stiffer engine mount will take some of the slop out of my 1st to 2nd shift, and to third for that matter... With a STS it becomes a lot more evident...
I suppose i could complinet it with some better ground wires, coil pack and better plugs and wires? That is kinda last on the list though. I might buy a Pro Racer Package for my XCal when i get off my butt and invest in a laptop and see what i can learn poking around with fuel tables and timing adjusting...
I feel like this thread has had more discussion about a single part changing your car than any other so far! Really good information, and opinons i can value. I was also wondering if it is possible to get more out of your cold air intake by adjusting the "gain?" on the MAF output voltage, with a Pro Racer Package or something? anyone know?
but it MUST be said. Most people who ask about UDP's are clueless about the possible (although unlikely) dangers of removing the harmonic damper over a long time. I personally can't post on the subject unless I know the person is aware. It's just not something I feel right about suggesting without making sure they understand that danger.
As for cooling. You dont need to worry about anything.
I ran a UDP, at willow springs in 103 degree heat on a road course for a good 20-40 laps. The engine does overheat but that's just because it was so stinking hot and the SVT just does that when you are driving it like a nut in 100+ degree temps.
As for cooling. You dont need to worry about anything.
I ran a UDP, at willow springs in 103 degree heat on a road course for a good 20-40 laps. The engine does overheat but that's just because it was so stinking hot and the SVT just does that when you are driving it like a nut in 100+ degree temps.
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