Ford has confirmed the Focus will recive the ZF CVT in the 4Q 2003.
The Catch is that only the European Focus will get it
The Catch is that only the European Focus will get it
biker16
Eeesh...
HIDs, Navigation, turbochargers, quaifes, turbodiesels, and now a CVT.
The Focus has really become one hell of a car.
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HIDs, Navigation, turbochargers, quaifes, turbodiesels, and now a CVT.
The Focus has really become one hell of a car.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Continueously Variable Transmission. Think of an automatic tranny with infinite gear ratios rather than four or five "steps". It has appeared on a few cars over the years. The Subaru Justy wasn't the first but was probably the most mainstream car to have it, about ten or more years ago.
It was fine in the Justy as it was so low powered and CVT's back then had problems with higher HP cars. That seems to be solved now as Audi and others are putting it on cars with much bigger numbers, like 200+HP.
The CVT is becoming much more mainstream.
Honda Civics were the first mainstream cars after the Justy to have them. The current hybrid Civics can be had with one.
The Saturn VUE has it, and so will the ION, and more than likely the L-Series.
Ford's introducing one in the 500, whenever that comes out, and I believe the Escape hybrid model will have one also. I would imagine the Focus will see one stateside not too long after the Europeans get it.
Audi has it as an option on A6's. It's also on the new Nissan crossover vehicle standard.
Honda Civics were the first mainstream cars after the Justy to have them. The current hybrid Civics can be had with one.
The Saturn VUE has it, and so will the ION, and more than likely the L-Series.
Ford's introducing one in the 500, whenever that comes out, and I believe the Escape hybrid model will have one also. I would imagine the Focus will see one stateside not too long after the Europeans get it.
Audi has it as an option on A6's. It's also on the new Nissan crossover vehicle standard.
For optimum efficency the CVT needs to be Drive by wire.
As the Zetec E dosen't have such a sysem I suposed th e Focus will only have the CVT with the Duratec HE and smaller Duratec 16v.
there are 3 types of For CVt for various torque ouputs,
The
CF 18 (180nm of torque) 130ft/lbs
CF 23 (230nm ) 170ft/lbs
CF 30 (300nm) 220ft/lbs
AFAIK all will use a lock-up hydraulic torque converter (ala Normal ATXs.)
the CF 18 can use a wet clutch for better efficency.
CVTs Are Good they are smooth, refined and eventually more reliable than ATXs. ( far fewer parts) lighter and cheaper.
The CVT should help Retire the CD4E, AX4N, and Focus ATX (name?) along with the corresponding mazda trannys.
None of those have been known for reliability.
As the Zetec E dosen't have such a sysem I suposed th e Focus will only have the CVT with the Duratec HE and smaller Duratec 16v.
there are 3 types of For CVt for various torque ouputs,
The
CF 18 (180nm of torque) 130ft/lbs
CF 23 (230nm ) 170ft/lbs
CF 30 (300nm) 220ft/lbs
AFAIK all will use a lock-up hydraulic torque converter (ala Normal ATXs.)
the CF 18 can use a wet clutch for better efficency.
CVTs Are Good they are smooth, refined and eventually more reliable than ATXs. ( far fewer parts) lighter and cheaper.
The CVT should help Retire the CD4E, AX4N, and Focus ATX (name?) along with the corresponding mazda trannys.
None of those have been known for reliability.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Strange, considering that European buyers don't go for many automatic transmissions, while US buyers, who usually do choose automatic transmissions (especially with US-brand cars) have to continue to get the old-style automatics.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They only sell the ATx with the 1.6 models.
The difference is that th CVT should have ~Equal the economy of MTX. that may apeal to the MTX driver that spends tijme in City traffic. especially if they offer a manumatic function to it
The new Nissan Murano has it too. What I got from the training video on the digital cable on demand stuff is that insted of 4 "gears" there is an infinate amount of gears because it contiunally changes. And you don't experienece the lag of gear change, it's a smooth acceleration from start to go.
It's been difficult to impossible to build a CVT that will handle the torque output of today's vehicles and will hold up over 150,000 miles at a cost that wasn't stratospheric.
Only in recent years have manufacturers figured out how to do it. It's helped that consumers are demanding better performing, yet safer vehicles, that aren't subject to gas guzzler taxes. These demands have provided the motivation for manufacturers to design viable CVT transmissions.
By the way, a CVT doesn't provide the "same RPM all the time". It adjusts engine speeds to more efficiently meet power demands, which means it will run at different RPM's under acceleration as it would at cruise. Normal automatics do so too, but a CVT infinitely adjusts the gearing ratios between engine and rear axle, whereas a normal transmission can only shuffle between certain gears to approximate the most efficient engine speed.
The advent of electronic throttles means that engineers can more effectively allow the CVT to do its job. Engineers now can put the engine under more load at lower RPM, and make the action seamless to the driver, turning the gas pedal into a more predictable "torque requestor" device. This increases efficiency significantly.
Non-electronic automatics couldn't do this at all, since opening the throttle wide would also command the transmission to change to a lower gear. Electronic automatics with cable-linked throttles only accomplish this partially. Electronic automatics with electronic throttles can do this nearly as seamlessly as a CVT, particularly if it has 5 or more speeds.
However, an automatic will always be more complex to build than a CVT, and thus will cost more to build. Eventually, the only places you will not see a CVT will be heavy vehicles whose torque demands will overburden a CVT.
Edited for spelling...
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[ 01-21-2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Zoomer69 ]
Only in recent years have manufacturers figured out how to do it. It's helped that consumers are demanding better performing, yet safer vehicles, that aren't subject to gas guzzler taxes. These demands have provided the motivation for manufacturers to design viable CVT transmissions.
By the way, a CVT doesn't provide the "same RPM all the time". It adjusts engine speeds to more efficiently meet power demands, which means it will run at different RPM's under acceleration as it would at cruise. Normal automatics do so too, but a CVT infinitely adjusts the gearing ratios between engine and rear axle, whereas a normal transmission can only shuffle between certain gears to approximate the most efficient engine speed.
The advent of electronic throttles means that engineers can more effectively allow the CVT to do its job. Engineers now can put the engine under more load at lower RPM, and make the action seamless to the driver, turning the gas pedal into a more predictable "torque requestor" device. This increases efficiency significantly.
Non-electronic automatics couldn't do this at all, since opening the throttle wide would also command the transmission to change to a lower gear. Electronic automatics with cable-linked throttles only accomplish this partially. Electronic automatics with electronic throttles can do this nearly as seamlessly as a CVT, particularly if it has 5 or more speeds.
However, an automatic will always be more complex to build than a CVT, and thus will cost more to build. Eventually, the only places you will not see a CVT will be heavy vehicles whose torque demands will overburden a CVT.
Edited for spelling...
[ 01-21-2003, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Zoomer69 ]
CVT's were actually the first AT's way way WAY back in the day. I dont know why they dissapeared, its hard to find much written on the first ones.
Unfortunately the reason they havent been welcome in the US is because they are different. Americans are hesitant to buy things that they dont understand. Personally I think it would be very strange to have a car that ran at the same RPM all the time. It would feel like driving around a weed wacker. Then again, I would get used to it because I knew that it made the car kick arse.
Unfortunately the reason they havent been welcome in the US is because they are different. Americans are hesitant to buy things that they dont understand. Personally I think it would be very strange to have a car that ran at the same RPM all the time. It would feel like driving around a weed wacker. Then again, I would get used to it because I knew that it made the car kick arse.
the rpm is going away, in the futur we will judge things such as trc (transmition rotation pre cycle), And instead of the gas pedal controlling the throttle it will control the transmition's gearing.
I cant wait to launch my car at 6700 rpm and change the gearing as fast as I can down the 1/4 mile
I cant wait to launch my car at 6700 rpm and change the gearing as fast as I can down the 1/4 mile
The CVT, while being out for quite some time, is still something I would hesitate to purchase. This is not because I do not understand CVT's, but rather because I do understand them. From every engineering drawing I have ever seen of a CVT they all have some type of variable width or size pulley on one or both sides of the drive and tranny pulleys. They all must use some type of rubber and steel BELT that is WEDGED into the pulleys. I do not know about you, but I would not want to depend on a hyped up wedged belt for long term reliability. Also if something goes wrong with the system, whom are you going to get to fix it? Do you just replace the belt? How much will this cost? How available will this part be? Also remember that Ford, like many auto makers depends on suppliers. Will the supplier that makes the belts continue making them? There are just too many questions with these things for me to be comfortable with them. They stopped making Justy's a little over 10 years ago. Does anyone know someone that has a Justy CVT? How does it hold up? I think the idea of a CVT is great, but how effective is it?
I would prefer a better system that works on current technology and enhances it. BMW makes a Sequential Manual Gearbox that I find would be better to trickle down to most automobiles. It has a clutch, pressure plate, and shifter like a normal manual. It also has paddles on the steering wheel. (Ala F1) The shifting is done electronically. You can shift (like a manual) selecting through the gears without having to clutch with your shifts, or you can select to auto, or use the steering wheel paddles. It is quite amazing! It uses existing tech and it works! The thing shifts quicker than any of us humans can at .003 seconds per shift! This has many of the attributes of the manual with the convenience of an auto. Clutches last a lot longer than belts, in transmissions anyway. I would love to see the day that they could make a very dependable CVT but I just do not trust them yet.
I would prefer a better system that works on current technology and enhances it. BMW makes a Sequential Manual Gearbox that I find would be better to trickle down to most automobiles. It has a clutch, pressure plate, and shifter like a normal manual. It also has paddles on the steering wheel. (Ala F1) The shifting is done electronically. You can shift (like a manual) selecting through the gears without having to clutch with your shifts, or you can select to auto, or use the steering wheel paddles. It is quite amazing! It uses existing tech and it works! The thing shifts quicker than any of us humans can at .003 seconds per shift! This has many of the attributes of the manual with the convenience of an auto. Clutches last a lot longer than belts, in transmissions anyway. I would love to see the day that they could make a very dependable CVT but I just do not trust them yet.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the manufacturing technology has improved. The fact thet the CVT's Design is far simpler than conventional ATXs mean that it should be more reliable than ATxs. The belt technolgy and the means to produce the belt has improved. Audi doesn't even use belts but uses a multilink chain instead.
Ford has alot resting on the CVT it had better be good.
Alos the ZF CVT has been used in the New Mini For a while.
Hey Biker, this isn't small car cvt related, but you might be interested. From CAR magazine, Feb edition, page 31, an article about an Infinately Variable Transmission from a company called Torotrak. Applications for large SUV's, rwd, unlimited torque. Here is the link:
http://www.torotrak.com/technology.html
http://www.torotrak.com/technology.html
All good points biker. Lets wait and see what happens with these long term. I was unaware that the Audi uses chains. Also I know Nissan has been working on a ceramic disk system for quite a few years, but why not in the Murano? A good point with the Mini as well. Thanks for the article on the High-torque CVT's. I do look foreword to a future with more of these. Again thanks for all the information.
Thanks,
The Beav
Thanks,
The Beav
Actually, there are two types of CVTs : 1) Pulley System - a flexible steel belt running between two variable-diameter pulleys for small vehicles. 2) Disk & Roller System - uses a toroidal continuously variable disk and metal rollers to transmit power and smoothly change gear ratio for high-horsepower vehicles.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, it's pretty weird to drive a vehicle with a CVT. I've heard that the automakers might in fact program the whole system to make some rise and fall of RPM, because American consumers would be too weirded out to floor the engine and have RPMs peg at peak power output and just stay there while you have your foot buried trying to reach 60mph or 1/4mile. As Zoomer69 explained, there should be some rise and fall in engine RPM under normal driving conditions as the drivetrain system constantly reacts for optimal fuel economy, optimal acceleration, optimal towing, etc, whatever is necessary. But that full throttle thing sure is weird.
Anyone who has piloted something like a Formula SAE car with CVT or Polaris snowmobile/snowmachine (depending on where you're from) could attest to how it feels. Unless one of you has driven a new Audi with CVT....
Yeah, thats great, but I wish carmakers would do their best to DISCOURAGE autotragics....and TELL the customers what they want dammit!!!!
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