[P-51]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Not necessarily... many of the parts-bin conversions can really suck because the pistons are too big for the mastercylinders. The BAT Mustang PBR conversion is a perfect example.

 

[teamDFL]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Not necessarily... many of the parts-bin conversions can really suck because the pistons are too big for the mastercylinders. The BAT Mustang PBR conversion is a perfect example.

While not done on the BAT jobn, the early Cobra and C4 caliper has dual 38mm pistons which are an almost exact area match for the stock non SVT unit.

 

[seanmc]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Top of mind for me this morning...

I don't think that cookie-cutter 'spec' ECU flashes are the best equalizer. While I know very little on the subject, I do know that some motors will benefit more from the same tune than others. Too much variability in manufacturing to really make this fair and equal across each engine type, IMO.

Maybe air restrictors are better?

Another option: If you've read the SpecE30 rules, they use the various final drives available for E30s to help level the playing field. 325is's get the numerically smallest, and the less powerful cars get larger ones. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have been *quite* enough, as the 325is's are clearly the fastest cars.

With respect to Foci, the MTX75's 3.41 - 3.82 - 4.06 gives you a good selection to draw on and tweak. The SVT Getrag box doesn't seem to have any alternate ratios available, so that seems like your logical fixed point that you work your variables around. There will be times when a seemingly better final drive will be a disadvantage b/c of gear spacing, but on average...it might work ok.

So, Spec flash bad, IMO.

BUT, A weight / final drive / air restrictor equivalency formula might work.

 

[P-51]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I think the final drive thing isn't such a hot idea. That is an aweful lot of work and expense for an equalization measure.

Restrictors would be easy. Could be pucks machined to fit in the TB opening fairly cheaply.

 

[teamDFL]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Why are we talking about slowing down the cars now? I thought the probelm was that the SF might have trouble keeping up with other Spec classes like SM?

 

[seanmc]

Re: Spec Series Testing

^ Just talking about leveling the playing field *within the class*. It's going to take some doing, no? Once you get the basic SF spec (and the overall speed for the class), you can use weight-restrictor-final drive to tweak model-to-model competitiveness.

Rob, I dunno - I think the final drives are pretty danged easy. If you're going to have the 'box apart for a Torsen/Quaife install (as permitted by the proposed rules - so who would pass it up?), the final drive swap should be a cinch. And it's such a simple solution for regulating actual usable power to the ground.

 

[BadIdea]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I thought a few bolt ons was supposed to get the base zetec up to svt power, and ford racing was giving these parts up for cheap.

 

[teamDFL]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Well, I guess leveling the playing field is all well and good once you have people playing on the field. At this time, I think it is more important that the cars be speced to be compatable with current cars in other classes than to worry about how a Zetec compares to a Duratec an so forth. If you plan to make them all run at +/- X% of a benchmark, the subsequent tweaking should be small.

 

[Ted7rns]

Re: Spec Series Testing

It is more important to level the playing field on all Focus models (except the SPI will not be used) then it is to be compatible with other spec cars. We can be within a few seconds with other classes (+/-).... but we have to be fairly equal within the Focus class.

All these ideas about leveling the playing field sounds good. We are looking into all these ideas. I think every idea we have talked about.

 

[Primaris]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Keep it cheap and live by KISS.

 

[Penguini66]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Keep it cheap and live by KISS.

Yea, since I can't afford a race car, my plan will be to just buy a bolt/in Autopower seat and harness. The Thursday before the race weekend, I'll rent a Focus and install the cage, seat and harness. Add a set of approved tires and I'm ready to go. Then return it back to stock Sunday night to return it on Monday. The less I'd have to do to be legal, the better.

 

[BUR_ZX3]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I thought a few bolt ons was supposed to get the base zetec up to svt power, and ford racing was giving these parts up for cheap.

No way Jose. You need cams, intake, exhaust, headwork to come close to SVT power.

 

[Ted7rns]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I thought a few bolt ons was supposed to get the base zetec up to svt power, and ford racing was giving these parts up for cheap.

It will be hard to get the Zetec up to the same power as the SVT. But, we can get close enough to be able to use Weight Ballast and Air Management to level out the cars on the track.

 

[P-51]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Rob, I dunno - I think the final drives are pretty danged easy. If you're going to have the 'box apart for a Torsen/Quaife install (as permitted by the proposed rules - so who would pass it up?), the final drive swap should be a cinch. And it's such a simple solution for regulating actual usable power to the ground.

I don't think they're easy. I've done the diff myself, and it's very hard to do it *right*. That involves adjusting the shims. You would then have to do the same on the output shaft I think. So it is a lot more work, and another couple hundred bucks.

But larger than that... I envision that the LSD would be allowed by not mandatory. If somebody doesn't have the money for the LSD to get started, they can do without.

If you do the final drive for the spec, they'll be required to do it, which means they HAVE to open the box.

Zietgiest helped me with the Quaife. Mike, how much extra work do you feel that is compared with the all the other prep work? An extra 10%? 20? 30?

 

[Ted7rns]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I envision that the LSD would be allowed by not mandatory. If somebody doesn't have the money for the LSD to get started, they can do without.

You're correct, LSDs will be allowed, but not mandatory.

 

[seanmc]

Re: Spec Series Testing

But larger than that... I envision that the LSD would be allowed by not mandatory. If somebody doesn't have the money for the LSD to get started, they can do without.

If you do the final drive for the spec, they'll be required to do it, which means they HAVE to open the box.

I was figuring that if an LSD is allowed, then everyone would go ahead and do it...so in my mind, a non-issue.

But I hear ya; it would be a shame to write folks with smaller budgets out of the class when there are alternatives.

 

[P-51]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I don't think it should be assumed that everybody will have an LSD right off the bat, and thus the problem with final drive mandates.

Some people won't have all the money, and just want to go racing. Such is the nature of compact car spec series.

 

[slidemaster]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Exactly, I agree to the max. Lets go

 

[seanmc]

Re: Spec Series Testing

I don't think it should be assumed that everybody will have an LSD right off the bat, and thus the problem with final drive mandates.

Some people won't have all the money, and just want to go racing. Such is the nature of compact car spec series.

Yes, understood.

Of course - and I don't know why this didn't occur to me before - like the proposed LSD rule, if you only dictate a numerical *maximum* final drive ratio, you don't rule out using a numerically lower one. And again, if you're going to the trouble and expense of installing some sort of LSD, a final drive swap is not much more commitment.

So, for instance...SVT's stay stock, 2.3's run a 3.82 *max*, and 2.0 Zetecs and Duratecs run a 4.06.

 

[CCC]

Re: Spec Series Testing

Keep it cheap and live by KISS.

Yea, since I can't afford a race car, my plan will be to just buy a bolt/in Autopower seat and harness. The Thursday before the race weekend, I'll rent a Focus and install the cage, seat and harness. Add a set of approved tires and I'm ready to go. Then return it back to stock Sunday night to return it on Monday. The less I'd have to do to be legal, the better.

Did everyone miss this...

Thats freakin great. If you actually do that, please let us know. I think its a good idea, as long as someone doesnt nose dive you into turn one...can't quite say it was a shopping cart, ya know?


CCC